Comments for whyileft.org http://www.whyileft.org Thoughts from the mind of Josh Spiers: Formerly Apostolic Pentecostal, always Christian Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:53:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 Comment on Response to UPC Bible study on Jewelry by Mike http://www.whyileft.org/responses-to-the-upc/response-to-upc-bible-study-on-jewelry/#comment-109 Mike Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:47:28 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/responses-to-the-upc/response-to-upc-bible-study-on-jewelry/#comment-109 As the Israelites were departing captivity in Egypt, they received jewelry and other tribute from the Egyptians, in accord with God's prophecy much earlier in Genesis. Although this jewelry was used in creating the golden calf, the wearing of the jewelry per se does not seem to have been forbidden by God. As the Israelites were departing captivity in Egypt, they received jewelry and other tribute from the Egyptians, in accord with God’s prophecy much earlier in Genesis. Although this jewelry was used in creating the golden calf, the wearing of the jewelry per se does not seem to have been forbidden by God.

]]> Comment on Response to UPC Bible study on Make-up by Josh http://www.whyileft.org/responses-to-the-upc/response-to-upc-bible-study-on-make-up/#comment-108 Josh Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:03:50 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/responses-to-the-upc/response-to-upc-bible-study-on-make-up/#comment-108 Hi, Penny, thank you for your comments. I will e-mail you shortly. I am not sure why nothing showed up under "contact me"--it looks like that page is working again now. About Shane's comments, I just want to clarify that this article had a much more sarcastic tone when he made his comments. The sarcasm was not intentional on my part, but it was still there. This was one of the first articles that I wrote (I actually wrote it while I was still attending a UPC church) and I had a lot of frustration. That seeped through in the form of sarcasm, and I can see how readers might have taken it as bitterness. I can honestly say that I did not have a lot of bitterness when I left the UPC. I struggled hard to avoid it. Anyway, I gave this article a re-write a couple of months ago to try to make the tone less sarcastic. The content is the same, but the tone is different than the original one. I can see how Shane construed the original article as being bitter. That perception was one of the reasons I re-wrote the article. Honestly, I have not struggled very much with bitterness. When bitter feelings do crop up I try to follow the advice of Hebrews: "See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no 'root of bitterness' springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;" (Heb 12:15 ESV). Thanks again for your comments, and for the comments of everyone. Hi, Penny, thank you for your comments. I will e-mail you shortly. I am not sure why nothing showed up under “contact me”–it looks like that page is working again now.

About Shane’s comments, I just want to clarify that this article had a much more sarcastic tone when he made his comments. The sarcasm was not intentional on my part, but it was still there. This was one of the first articles that I wrote (I actually wrote it while I was still attending a UPC church) and I had a lot of frustration. That seeped through in the form of sarcasm, and I can see how readers might have taken it as bitterness.

I can honestly say that I did not have a lot of bitterness when I left the UPC. I struggled hard to avoid it.

Anyway, I gave this article a re-write a couple of months ago to try to make the tone less sarcastic. The content is the same, but the tone is different than the original one. I can see how Shane construed the original article as being bitter. That perception was one of the reasons I re-wrote the article.

Honestly, I have not struggled very much with bitterness. When bitter feelings do crop up I try to follow the advice of Hebrews: “See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no ‘root of bitterness’ springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;” (Heb 12:15 ESV).

Thanks again for your comments, and for the comments of everyone.

]]> Comment on Response to UPC Bible study on Make-up by Penny http://www.whyileft.org/responses-to-the-upc/response-to-upc-bible-study-on-make-up/#comment-107 Penny Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:35:54 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/responses-to-the-upc/response-to-upc-bible-study-on-make-up/#comment-107 I disagree with Shane. Nothing on this website demonstrates bitterness toward the UPC. Just a different point of view. Josh, you have no contact information under "contact me." I came across your website and would like to chat with you. I'm a oneness pentecostal from California, and I'm having a real problem with the standards lately. It's not that I have a problem with having standards or even following standards. A lot of churches, clubs, organizations, work places, etc. have standards. (I'm an attorney, and most women wear knee-length skirts and pantihose to court. The legal world is a very old-fashioned conservative world, and I fit right in.) What I do have a problem with is the condemnation associated with the standards. Please contact me. I'm interested in knowing more about your journey of faith. I disagree with Shane. Nothing on this website demonstrates bitterness toward the UPC. Just a different point of view.

Josh, you have no contact information under “contact me.” I came across your website and would like to chat with you. I’m a oneness pentecostal from California, and I’m having a real problem with the standards lately.

It’s not that I have a problem with having standards or even following standards. A lot of churches, clubs, organizations, work places, etc. have standards. (I’m an attorney, and most women wear knee-length skirts and pantihose to court. The legal world is a very old-fashioned conservative world, and I fit right in.) What I do have a problem with is the condemnation associated with the standards.

Please contact me. I’m interested in knowing more about your journey of faith.

]]> Comment on What does the Bible say about women wearing pants? by Jack http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-women-wearing-pants/#comment-106 Jack Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:42:04 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-women-wearing-pants/#comment-106 As far as the pants isuue is concerned, I would say that not all women's pants can be considered immodest, men wear pants that are loose fitting and that would be acceptable, however if the man wore pants two sizes to small or big that definately would be beyond the bounds of proper appearal as it pertains to a Christian. Because our culture has changed so much it concerns me as to the style of a wide majority of womens pants which are very form fitting. However, the wearing of proper clothing is always taught as it is a benefit to you, edifying you, but is it not so as to not allure a member of the opposite sex? Sure, proper fitting clothing does provide for a good testimony, but if you are wearing dresses and no jewlery as part of your outward sanctification, then would you not be basing your relationship with God upon your works, and be as guilty as the person wearing flashy clothing to attract attention? My problem is with those that feel they are better or closer to God than someone else because of thier clothing or lack of flashy outward appearal. As far as the pants isuue is concerned, I would say that not all women’s pants can be considered immodest, men wear pants that are loose fitting and that would be acceptable, however if the man wore pants two sizes to small or big that definately would be beyond the bounds of proper appearal as it pertains to a Christian.
Because our culture has changed so much it concerns me as to the style of a wide majority of womens pants which are very form fitting. However, the wearing of proper clothing is always taught as it is a benefit to you, edifying you, but is it not so as to not allure a member of the opposite sex?
Sure, proper fitting clothing does provide for a good testimony, but if you are wearing dresses and no jewlery as part of your outward sanctification, then would you not be basing your relationship with God upon your works, and be as guilty as the person wearing flashy clothing to attract attention?
My problem is with those that feel they are better or closer to God than someone else because of thier clothing or lack of flashy outward appearal.

]]> Comment on What does the Bible say about wearing make-up? by Heather http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-wearing-make-up/#comment-105 Heather Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:16:01 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-wearing-make-up/#comment-105 Thank you for this article. I appreciate the simple approach to the topic and I have found myself in similar discussions quoting to others what Galatians 5 says will keep people out of the Kingdom - not extra stuff. As a woman, I can say that there are practical sides to not wearing make-up and that is the cost of it and time spent. Sadly, the beauty market in America is a billion-dollar industry - women spend a lot of time and money on their looks, which we all know that time and money could be spent far better. My husband has asked me not to wear make-up so the decision is made for me. But otherwise, I would still wear a small amount like I did before he was in the picture. I do think make-up can be a problem for some women - it becomes their security - but it is still not sin. Thank you for this article. I appreciate the simple approach to the topic and I have found myself in similar discussions quoting to others what Galatians 5 says will keep people out of the Kingdom - not extra stuff. As a woman, I can say that there are practical sides to not wearing make-up and that is the cost of it and time spent. Sadly, the beauty market in America is a billion-dollar industry - women spend a lot of time and money on their looks, which we all know that time and money could be spent far better. My husband has asked me not to wear make-up so the decision is made for me. But otherwise, I would still wear a small amount like I did before he was in the picture. I do think make-up can be a problem for some women - it becomes their security - but it is still not sin.

]]> Comment on The Nature of Truth by Sally http://www.whyileft.org/truth/the-nature-of-truth/#comment-99 Sally Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:45:40 +0000 http://www.whyileft.org/general/the-nature-of-truth/#comment-99 My Oneness 20 year preacher husband argues the point of speaking in tongues. He states that the tongues spoken at pentecost were the initial infilling of the holy spirit. 1 Cor. verses were written to the church in Corinth, at a later date, and the 'not all speak in tongues, do they?' verse only refers to the church at that time, as those believers had already had the initial infilling of the holy spirit, which according to him is a separate occurence from 'just' speaking in tongues! Any help here? Ahhhhh My Oneness 20 year preacher husband argues the point of speaking in tongues. He states that the tongues spoken at pentecost were the initial infilling of the holy spirit. 1 Cor. verses were written to the church in Corinth, at a later date, and the ‘not all speak in tongues, do they?’ verse only refers to the church at that time, as those believers had already had the initial infilling of the holy spirit, which according to him is a separate occurence from ‘just’ speaking in tongues! Any help here? Ahhhhh

]]> Comment on Matthew 28:19 (Misinterpreted Scriptures) by Rev. Josh Sparks http://www.whyileft.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/matthew-2819-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-86 Rev. Josh Sparks Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:15:11 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/matthew-2819-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-86 Ephesians 4:5- One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism. What a popular verse among apostolic ministers. I use to misquote this verse also. That is true this verse. There is One Lord. One Faith and One Baptism and the same write of the letter to the Ephesians wrote also that among the many teachings of the church there were 6 foundational doctrines of the church as found in Hebrews 6:1-3 and in that He Paul mentions the doctrine of baptisms (Plural). John the baptist came baptizing in water unto repentance for the remission of sins but Jesus Christ came to baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire( Luke 3:16). Jesus made and baptized more disciples then John, though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples(John 4:1-2). Does this verse mean he baptized his disciples or they baptized believers for the Lord? The way the verse reads is stating Jesus didnt baptize with water but His discisple did. Why? he would baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire. The same writer Paul who wrote by inspiration Eph 4:5 also wrote by inspiration in ( 1 Cor 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free: and have been made all to drink into one Spirit. So the verse found in Eph 4:5-One Lord. One Faith. One Baptism is correct in that we are baptized into one (1) body by one (1) Spirit. I hope this has edified and been a help. In His Grip, Rev. Josh Sparks. Ephesians 4:5- One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism. What a popular verse among apostolic ministers. I use to misquote this verse also. That is true this verse. There is One Lord. One Faith and One Baptism and the same write of the letter to the Ephesians wrote also that among the many teachings of the church there were 6 foundational doctrines of the church as found in Hebrews 6:1-3 and in that He Paul mentions the doctrine of baptisms (Plural).

John the baptist came baptizing in water unto repentance for the remission of sins but Jesus Christ came to baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire( Luke 3:16).

Jesus made and baptized more disciples then John, though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples(John 4:1-2). Does this verse mean he baptized his disciples or they baptized believers for the Lord? The way the verse reads is stating Jesus didnt baptize with water but His discisple did. Why? he would baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire.

The same writer Paul who wrote by inspiration Eph 4:5 also wrote by inspiration in ( 1 Cor 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free: and have been made all to drink into one Spirit.

So the verse found in Eph 4:5-One Lord. One Faith. One Baptism is correct in that we are baptized into one (1) body by one (1) Spirit.

I hope this has edified and been a help.

In His Grip,
Rev. Josh Sparks.

]]> Comment on Malachi 3:8-10 (Misinterpreted Scriptures) by Rev. Josh Sparks http://www.whyileft.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/malachi-38-10-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-85 Rev. Josh Sparks Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:04:25 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/malachi-38-10-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-85 Wonderful article Brother. And it is the absolute truth. Wonderful article Brother. And it is the absolute truth.

]]> Comment on 2 Samuel 6:14 (Misinterpreted Scriptures) by Rev. Josh Sparks http://www.whyileft.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/2-samuel-614-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-84 Rev. Josh Sparks Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:00:19 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/2-samuel-614-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-84 I too was raised in the UPC and was an Apostolic minister for nearly 13 years of my 17 years in Ministry. This is a widely misquoted scripture by many. And so many I have ministered to have left church thinking there was something terribly wrong with them because they were not as vocal in their worship or did not dance and run the isles. I know many great saved folks who have not shouted and dance and ran but they are saved. The Apostle Paul in his second letter to Timothy the 4th chapter and the 2nd verse, He said "Preach the Word" not ones opinion. Lets love the Word of God enough ti just preach the word. It will really change people. In His Grip, Rev. Josh Sparks. I too was raised in the UPC and was an Apostolic minister for nearly 13 years of my 17 years in Ministry. This is a widely misquoted scripture by many. And so many I have ministered to have left church thinking there was something terribly wrong with them because they were not as vocal in their worship or did not dance and run the isles. I know many great saved folks who have not shouted and dance and ran but they are saved.

The Apostle Paul in his second letter to Timothy the 4th chapter and the 2nd verse, He said “Preach the Word” not ones opinion. Lets love the Word of God enough ti just preach the word. It will really change people.

In His Grip,
Rev. Josh Sparks.

]]> Comment on Matthew 28:19 (Misinterpreted Scriptures) by D Williamson http://www.whyileft.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/matthew-2819-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-83 D Williamson Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:46:19 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/matthew-2819-misinterpreted-scriptures/#comment-83 Thank you, My husband were just discussing this yesterday and came to the same basic conclusion. God LOVES us! We left UPC in the spring, and are So glad. God has been blessing us with truth and love. I feel blessed to believe that millions of believers are Not going to hell for being baptized in the titles, I might even see my beloved Grandmother in Heaven! What a deliverance from such a condemning belief system. Thanks again for your site. Thank you,
My husband were just discussing this yesterday and came to the same basic conclusion. God LOVES us! We left UPC in the spring, and are So glad. God has been blessing us with truth and love. I feel blessed to believe that millions of believers are Not going to hell for being baptized in the titles, I might even see my beloved Grandmother in Heaven!
What a deliverance from such a condemning belief system. Thanks again for your site.

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