Comments on: James 2:19 (Misinterpreted Scriptures)

By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:48:34 +0000

Nice summary, the other Josh :). The only thing I’d clarify is that I wouldn’t say that “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” are Jesus. I would say, though, that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are God.

In Christ,
Josh S.

By: The Other Josh

The Other Josh — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 04:07:09 +0000

I want to try and develop a few points here that Admin Josh is trying to make.

- Admin has no problem with baptizing in Jesus Name
- Admin has no problem with baptizing in the “titles”
- Admin believes that since Father, Son, and HG are in fact Jesus (a Oneness Pentecostal view)
- Admin believes that utilizing the titles is just as valid as utilizing the spoken Name

Does the formula really matter? Church fathers have been willing to use both titles and Name for much of Christian history. The issue really wasn’t big until a rift developed over Oneness and Trinity. It seems to me, title adherents were just a little scared of a Oneness viewpoint, and with their desire to baptise in the Name of Jesus only, Trinitarian view holders figured baptizing in the Name only poisonous as well.

By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:08:45 +0000

Frank,

I don’t know that I’ve ever heard this verse covered in apostolic circles, so I’m unsure what their interpretation would be. However, I don’t think the verse demands a Trinitarian or Oneness interpretation. In other words, the verse could be interpreted by a Trinitarian or Oneness believer with the same results–I.e., that we must believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

I hope that helps!

In Christ,
- Josh S.

By: Josh P

Josh P — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:56:25 +0000

There is one truth, and sad to say, the creater of this blog is the one mis-itpretating these scriptures, not us oneness pentecostals, if you knew this truth and are now denying, I worry for you. The truth will stand.

By: Frank

Frank — Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:21:30 +0000

Josh,

Firstly, I commend your boldness.

I would like to ask your stance on the following verse.

1John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

The Oneness Pentecostal and Trinitarian views seem to be extreme opposites regarding this passage.

In Christ,
Bro. Frank

By: Brandirose Shaw

Brandirose Shaw — Mon, 02 May 2011 02:21:27 +0000

A check? Really? Look, God did not write a check, he paid in full. There were not checks in the bible…unless I am mistaken. That is almost as silly as saying women should wear dresses because that is what is on the bathroom doors. Give me a break.
I appreciate your saying the Jesus isn’t even Messiah’s name. Majoring on minors causes sin because you are like the Pharisees if you sit around acting like you have to have an answer for everything and it better add up with what the church is saying. Has anyone actually listened to the message of the Apostolic church from a perspective of a non-believer? I was in an Apostolic church for 13 years. I am not one to give my self partially to anything, I was all in. I decided to really look at things without the rhetoric….you know what happened when I did, I was frightened because I felt like it was causing a crisis in faith…at the end of it though I think I grew in my understanding of God. The dogmatic beliefs of one group is silly. What did people do before the Holy Ghost, Jesus Name movement. Did they all go to hell?
You are right God does not send people to hell, but overzealous people who ignore that God wrote on mans heart instead of tablets of stone can be a stumbling block and I have seen too many people who give up on church because they think everyone is just that goofy…sad.

By: Grieved

Grieved — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:03:40 +0000

It’s alright, i understand. No apology necessary. All I know is we both know what the name is. He is the one who gave us life, and the one who sacrificed Himself so that we might live.

John 14:13&14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:42:37 +0000

Grieved,

I understand what you mean now. I apologize for reading it wrong.

I think the main difference in our views is that I view quoting Him AS obeying Him, whereas you view quoting Him as misunderstanding Him (or disobeying Him, etc…I think you understand what I mean).

The fundamental difference is that I view baptism as an act of obedience, and I don’t think that what is said over a person has any special magical power. If we baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost then that is Jesus, and if we baptize in the Name of Jesus then that is the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I understand that you disagree with me, so I think it’s safe to say that we can agree to disagree on this point. There’s no point in continuing to beat a dead horse.

Note: One time I said that there is no special magical significance in what is said over a person in baptism, and a person replied: “Are you saying that we can just say whatever we want in baptism? Can I go baptizing people in the name of Bob and still have it work?”

There is a lot that could be said about that statement, but here I’m just going to say one thing: That type of statement is a deliberate misunderstanding of the point that I am making. I’m obviously not saying to go around baptizing people in the name of Bob. My comments are strictly limited to the “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” vs. “Jesus’ Name” debate.

Thanks for taking the time to write,
- Josh S.

By: Grieved

Grieved — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:30:04 +0000

I knew that was established, that’s not what I was referring to. What I was saying is God commanded them to baptize in The name of the father, son, and holy ghost because they understood the name… God doesn’t send you to hell… We choose our own path. If we choose to quote Him rather than obey Him then there is no power. If I say “write a check in my name,” you won’t pull out a sheet of paper and write “a check in my name” because you understand what I mean. Yet if you did write it on the paper, there is no money transfer. Likewise if you do not obey His word to the fullest aspect of Its meaning then there is no sin transfer. How can He bless you or renew you if you can’t simply obey Him?

By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 23:36:28 +0000

Grieved, no one is disputing that Jesus is fully God and fully man. That subject was settled in full at the Councils of Nicene and Chalcedon in the 4th and 5th centuries A.D. (Prior to those councils Christians still believed in the deity of Christ, but there was some dispute over whether or not He was fully human.)

- Josh S.