Anyway, you might want to re-post your last comment in the “Colossians 3:17 (Misinterpreted Scriptures)” article (http://www.whyileft.org/frequently-misinterpreted-scriptures/colossians-317-misinterpreted-scriptures/). I address the point you just made in that article.

One thing to keep in mind is that I find both baptismal formulas Scriptural. I definitely don’t have a problem with people using a “in the Name of Jesus” formula. However, I do have a problem with people saying that you can’t be saved unless you’re baptized with those words said over you. I do not find that idea scriptural.

God bless,
- Josh S.

Thank you for your kind reply, I hope you accept my apology if I offended you in any way.

I have a sincere question for you regarding the following verse. The Lord put this in my heart awhile ago and how it applies to baptism and especially the words “do all in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (question after verse)

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

When a person baptizes another person and speaks out the words “I baptize you……” and the deed of the other person being baptized, does Col 3:17 apply?

Your comment is well appreciated.

Blessings to you,
Mark

I don’t normally reply to comments, but I do want to clarify one thing: I have never pitted the apostles’ actions against Jesus’ words. Doing that would imply that the apostles were wrong, and I obviously don’t think they were. I take a very high view of Scripture–I believe that the Bible, in its original manuscripts, is the infallible, inerrant word of God.

My point was only that Jesus did command that people be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Every manuscript of Matthew says the same thing. There can be no debate on that point. So if a person is baptized according to the literal words of Christ then they are not acting disobediently.

Did the apostles baptize in the Name of Jesus? Possibly. It’s also possible that Luke was using “the Name of” in the sense of “in the authority of.” That’s a very possible scenario, but it’s not the only possible scenario.

Either way. I am not the one pitting the words of Christ against the apostles. Anyone who believes that being baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is insufficient for salvation is standing at odds with Scripture. They are, in effect, claiming that obeying Christ is not sufficient.

Please note that I will not debate in the comments. I very rarely stepped in. I felt the need to reply to your comment though because I felt that I was grossly misunderstood.

I hope I have clarified my view. I hope that it makes more sense now, even if you continue to disagree with it =)

In Christ,
- Josh S.

I hope you don’t mind me using a quote from your previous statement.

(June 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am)
“Be that as it may, my original point is still the same. Even if I am wrong about how the early church performed baptism, one thing is clear: I don’t think Jesus is going to send people to hell for obeying Him.”

By stating the above, you have pitted the Acts (how things are done) of the Apostles -vs- what Jesus said. That is absolutely conflicting in any book.

If you are like me, I believe the word of God does not contradicts itself or is meant to confuse us (1 Cor 14:33). For this reason we need to read the whole bible and put the pieces together. That is why we are to “Seek” and not just read for the sake of reading something interesting.

Josh I will pray for you and I too love souls but we all make mistakes and you may want to “Pray” deeply on your stance. Remember there is …One Lord (Eph 4:5) …and his Name One (Zec 14:9).

It’s all about the “NAME” and I know you are fully aware of that fact.

Psalms 106:8, Jeremiah 23:6, Jeremiah 33:16, Matthew 10:22, Mark 13:13, Acts 2:21, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:13

Acts 4:7 – And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? [there is Power in His Name to Save!]

If a “Title” or “Formula” doesn’t matter then try to ask in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost for God to “heal” or “cast out devils” and see if it works.

Remember “Trust in His Name” – with Jesus and you can never go wrong when it comes to Salvation. I do believe God when He says …baptism doth also now save us (1 Pet 3:21).

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;

Peace & Love,
Mark — Houston, TX

Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1st question: Why baptize?
2nd question: What’s the name?
3rd question: What’s the end result?

All 3 questions are simply answered by the salvation plan as it has been coined to be known by because it really is:

Acts 2:38 (King James Version)

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This scripture answers what baptism is for: the remission of sins
This scripture answers what name it done in: Jesus Christ
This scripture answers what’s the end result? Receive the gift of the holy spirit (his spirit)

God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) so at some point in the Bible, that scripture was going to be further clarified.

Now looking at both texts, 28:19 fails to mention the first step in this process. But 2:38 shows that step which is you must first repent, or turn away/think differently which also requires faith that God is just to forgive you of your sins. baptism is of none effect unless you have repented.

Baptism is more than a “mode” or just “confession”. Its apart of your salvation. Mark 16:16 qualifies that by saying:

Mark 16:16 (King James Version)

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Translated: he that obeys my word and is baptized shall be saved; but he that obeys not my word and is not baptized shall be damned.

So the next question you must ask yourself is what is the revelation of the name Jesus Christ. We can use Genesis right on down to Revelation to show that, but it can be summed up in this text:

Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version)

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

in that one verse we see the “Son (child)/Prince of Peace”, “Father (God)”, “holy spirit (Everlasting Father) which is God”. Both the God/Everlasting Father is in reference to the same spirit. All 3 seem to agree as one which lines up with (1 John 5:7,8): Father, Word (Son), Spirit agree as ONE, the Blood, Water, Spirit also agree as One in both Heaven and Earth.

And if you take a look at Isaiah 7:14, it reads:

Isaiah 7:14 (King James Version)

14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

we only know of one virgin. But just like Jesus, Mary’s name was not revealed until the time appointed which we see in the gospels.

So 7:14 in conjunction with 9:6 is a fulfillment of 28:19. 28:19 is accomplished by Acts 2:38. See? Not confusing at all.

I agree with Tony. Jesus Christ is calling you back to him. He’s coming and very very soon, said it 3 times in Rev 22. The walk with Christ is not about the UPC. The organization is not the way to heaven, for Jesus Christ said he is the way, truth and life, not UPC (John 14:6). Just come on back home Brother, just come back home. Remember, it is God who hardens hearts. You spent time in this movement. He’s coming. Praying for you.

1) The new birth (John 3:3-7; ICorinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:5)

2) Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33)

3) Water baptism (Matthew 28:19)

Water baptism is separate from a person’s salvation.

Praise the Lord dear brother! I share a very similar experience to your own. I have also came to the same conclusions about baptismal formulas. I would be appreciative if you would share the historical references. While I do not rely upon historical references to establish my theology, they are useful to help reinforce the conclusions we have came to.

About Baptism … I think that the missed point is simply this -there is no scriptural example of anyone using a baptismal invocation or formula. Now I know Acts 2, 8 10 and 19 reference being baptized in Jesus Name. Yet, it is an assumption that this means that a minister said “I now baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ.” We only have an actual description of only two baptisms in scripture; that of Jesus Himself and that of the Ethiopian eunuch. On neither of these occasions was a baptismal formula used. In the case of the eunuch, he was only asked for a confession of faith.

Acts 8:36-38 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said,”If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said,”I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

The Apostle Paul was instructed to be baptized “calling on the name of the Lord.” This phrase is taken directly from the very same OT scripture that Peter preached from in Acts 2.

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ NIV

The calling on the name of the Lord is on the part of the one being baptized and not the one baptizing. Consider:

Rom 10:8-13 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” NIV

Baptism was the mode of confession. It was the time when the believer “called on the name of the Lord.” This does not mean that a person has to confess Jesus at baptism in order for his baptism to be valid, but he must have believed with his heart and confessed with his mouth prior to baptism. In this matter anyone who believes in Jesus, calls on him for salvation and is then baptized because of their faith is being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ no matter what is said at baptism.