Comments on: The loss of our heroes http://www.whyileft.org/ramblings/the-loss-of-our-heroes/ Thoughts from the mind of Josh Spiers: Formerly Apostolic Pentecostal, always Christian Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:07:09 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Bernie Yeater http://www.whyileft.org/ramblings/the-loss-of-our-heroes/comment-page-1/#comment-69 Bernie Yeater Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:02:24 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/general/the-loss-of-our-heroes/#comment-69 My journey in leaving the UPC I found out that I had to change my entire preception of faith, and the role of the minister in my life. Indeed stressful, but nessesary. Indeed may ministers either knowingly or by ignorance can be enemies of the gospel and dedication to the organization is not nessesarly dedication to the Lord. Understanding now the healthy and biblical role of the minister I was able to proceed to finding a healthy church to worship at. Not to say that there are not healthy UPC churches to worship at, but my particular situation was not healthy. In a healthy situation a minister is a fellow brother in the Lord who provides teaching from the Lord and his scripture. His authority comes from the fact that the grace of God is visably demonstrated in his life. In a healthy church the minister does not have authority because of his position. He has authority because he has the goods. The minister is also a sinner saved by grace and is accountable to the other members. If I see a minister in sin, I am supposed to go to him privately and confront him, and then with witnesses if I am unsuccessful. Believe it or not, if we do not hold a minister accountable - we are doing him a disservice, and witholding from him an importiant tool withing brotherly fellowship. In a unhealthy church/minister situation where the minister is held up unbiblically the minister is unable to demonstrate transparency, and he is unable to get his needs meet. Without this transparency, it provides Satan the opportunity to wreck havoc in the ministers life because he is forced to live a double life. One face for the church, another privately. A minister should never be in a position of a financual counselor (should I buy this house...car). My journey in leaving the UPC I found out that I had to change my entire preception of faith, and the role of the minister in my life.

Indeed stressful, but nessesary. Indeed may ministers either knowingly or by ignorance can be enemies of the gospel and dedication to the organization is not nessesarly dedication to the Lord.

Understanding now the healthy and biblical role of the minister I was able to proceed to finding a healthy church to worship at. Not to say that there are not healthy UPC churches to worship at, but my particular situation was not healthy.

In a healthy situation a minister is a fellow brother in the Lord who provides teaching from the Lord and his scripture. His authority comes from the fact that the grace of God is visably demonstrated in his life.

In a healthy church the minister does not have authority because of his position. He has authority because he has the goods. The minister is also a sinner saved by grace and is accountable to the other members. If I see a minister in sin, I am supposed to go to him privately and confront him, and then with witnesses if I am unsuccessful. Believe it or not, if we do not hold a minister accountable – we are doing him a disservice, and witholding from him an importiant tool withing brotherly fellowship.

In a unhealthy church/minister situation where the minister is held up unbiblically the minister is unable to demonstrate transparency, and he is unable to get his needs meet. Without this transparency, it provides Satan the opportunity to wreck havoc in the ministers life because he is forced to live a double life. One face for the church, another privately.

A minister should never be in a position of a financual counselor (should I buy this house…car).

]]> By: Amy http://www.whyileft.org/ramblings/the-loss-of-our-heroes/comment-page-1/#comment-61 Amy Mon, 30 Jun 2008 01:16:51 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/general/the-loss-of-our-heroes/#comment-61 That was just excellent. I remember the whole time I attended the UPC services, I would ask the Lord, can't I just have you? Once I learned to hear Him again, I realized He had been saying YES a long time. My first revelation came when I picked up the Bible and read the Gospels. Reading a book in one setting changes your whole perspective. I was amazed that Jesus was nothing like I though He was. He was wise, loving, and a teacher and altogether God. Even when He knew the disciples must have been doing something wrong when they asked how often they should forgive someone, he gave truth but didn't lecture on and on about what they may have been doing wrong. I think He only rebuked the religious leaders and Peter. And that would start a whole new subject.... Bless you, and keep writing. There's real life in that Book. Those that Seek HIM still Find HIM. That was just excellent. I remember the whole time I attended the UPC services, I would ask the Lord, can’t I just have you?

Once I learned to hear Him again, I realized He had been saying YES a long time.

My first revelation came when I picked up the Bible and read the Gospels. Reading a book in one setting changes your whole perspective.

I was amazed that Jesus was nothing like I though He was. He was wise, loving, and a teacher and altogether God. Even when He knew the disciples must have been doing something wrong when they asked how often they should forgive someone, he gave truth but didn’t lecture on and on about what they may have been doing wrong.

I think He only rebuked the religious leaders and Peter.

And that would start a whole new subject….

Bless you, and keep writing. There’s real life in that Book. Those that Seek HIM still Find HIM.

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