Comments on: What does the Bible say about holiness? http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/ Thoughts from the mind of Josh Spiers: Formerly Apostolic Pentecostal, always Christian Fri, 03 Feb 2012 02:56:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jason http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-22648 Jason Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:28:00 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-22648 WTG Josh! Our faith is found upon Christ. Christ is the object of our faith. Holiness is more of an "inward" condition rather than and outward expression. However, the correct inward condition reveals itself outwardly. We are "justified" by Christ. We can't justify each other nor ourselves because we are not the "Standard" of measure, Christ is. If we set up a set of "rules" we are legalists and Christ profits us nothing, for we depend on them. You see we have an "approval" problem. We want to be approved of what we do to "validate" our faith, instead of letting Christ do that. If we love Christ, that love reveals itself in how we handle everything else in life; speech, dress, lifestyle, etc; for "freedom" is not license. This is where we struggle in making everyday decisions. We critize others, as if we've never made wrong choices. Each person has to allow God to "approve" them and their choices. If we are following hard after God, we will wear appropriate cloths, not necessarily a clothing standard but un-offensive. As well as, all the other choices in our daily lives. That's why our faith is termed a "relationship" and not "religion". WTG Josh! Our faith is found upon Christ. Christ is the object of our faith. Holiness is more of an “inward” condition rather than and outward expression. However, the correct inward condition reveals itself outwardly. We are “justified” by Christ. We can’t justify each other nor ourselves because we are not the “Standard” of measure, Christ is. If we set up a set of “rules” we are legalists and Christ profits us nothing, for we depend on them. You see we have an “approval” problem. We want to be approved of what we do to “validate” our faith, instead of letting Christ do that. If we love Christ, that love reveals itself in how we handle everything else in life; speech, dress, lifestyle, etc; for “freedom” is not license. This is where we struggle in making everyday decisions. We critize others, as if we’ve never made wrong choices. Each person has to allow God to “approve” them and their choices. If we are following hard after God, we will wear appropriate cloths, not necessarily a clothing standard but un-offensive. As well as, all the other choices in our daily lives. That’s why our faith is termed a “relationship” and not “religion”.

]]> By: Akeem http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-20697 Akeem Sun, 18 Dec 2011 05:38:51 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-20697 Oh by the way Josh. Many of our standards our scriptural. If you would like Josh I would suggest that you go to our website upci.org and look under the resources tab and click the articles tab. Then go down to the article that says Holiness and Culture. Read it you will see that many of our standards are biblically based. Oh by the way Josh. Many of our standards our scriptural. If you would like Josh I would suggest that you go to our website upci.org and look under the resources tab and click the articles tab. Then go down to the article that says Holiness and Culture. Read it you will see that many of our standards are biblically based.

]]> By: Akeem http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-20696 Akeem Sun, 18 Dec 2011 05:25:58 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-20696 I am United Pentecostal and I will agree that some churches do make holiness all about the outer appearance. I know that many people say that we are all judgemental and such and some can be that way. In my church I have seen a change in our congregation. I used to be quite judgemental, but in recent years my definition of holiness has shifted. I no longer view holiness as outer but inner. Inner holiness will normally produce outer holiness because when we are pure inside we desire to please God. The author of this article made it seem as if my denomination was a dogmatic, strict denomination. In truth we view inner holiness as of more importance than outer because outer holiness without a clean heart is a facade. We do have standards and I firmly stand by them. But we are not going to condemn someone just because they wear make-up or wear pants. We love first and then the standards come in time and with the persons own spiritual growth. I am United Pentecostal and I will agree that some churches do make holiness all about the outer appearance. I know that many people say that we are all judgemental and such and some can be that way. In my church I have seen a change in our congregation. I used to be quite judgemental, but in recent years my definition of holiness has shifted. I no longer view holiness as outer but inner. Inner holiness will normally produce outer holiness because when we are pure inside we desire to please God. The author of this article made it seem as if my denomination was a dogmatic, strict denomination. In truth we view inner holiness as of more importance than outer because outer holiness without a clean heart is a facade. We do have standards and I firmly stand by them. But we are not going to condemn someone just because they wear make-up or wear pants. We love first and then the standards come in time and with the persons own spiritual growth.

]]> By: Akinbinu http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-18626 Akinbinu Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:42:11 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-18626 King James Bible Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. Mark 9:42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. This warning is to guide against our actions so that others don't fall to sin by them, our appearance as Christian should be moderate because it is not about us but about the reaction it is likely to generate. King James Bible
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. Mark 9:42 “And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. This warning is to guide against our actions so that others don’t fall to sin by them, our appearance as Christian should be moderate because it is not about us but about the reaction it is likely to generate.

]]> By: love http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17316 love Mon, 03 Oct 2011 16:49:44 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-17316 McKenzie... or M as you sign your comment... If you want to play the "better safe than sorry" card, you better read your Bible more closely. Please don't feel that your safe because you obey the UPC's holiness standards or doctrines, be safe & not sorry because you have searched out the truth for YOURSELF from Scripture based upon the origional language & intent of the Scriptures. Much of what the UPC teaches simply isn't Scripturally sound when you search the word meanings for yourself. Myself, I'd "rather be safe than sorry" too - but not based upon what any man or denomination tells me, but by picking up the Word of God and DOING what it says. Period. When you do that, you'll find there's MUCH in the Word that we have to do that the UPC does NOT teach you, & the man-made doctrines they teach fall by the wayside. McKenzie… or M as you sign your comment…

If you want to play the “better safe than sorry” card, you better read your Bible more closely. Please don’t feel that your safe because you obey the UPC’s holiness standards or doctrines, be safe & not sorry because you have searched out the truth for YOURSELF from Scripture based upon the origional language & intent of the Scriptures. Much of what the UPC teaches simply isn’t Scripturally sound when you search the word meanings for yourself. Myself, I’d “rather be safe than sorry” too – but not based upon what any man or denomination tells me, but by picking up the Word of God and DOING what it says. Period. When you do that, you’ll find there’s MUCH in the Word that we have to do that the UPC does NOT teach you, & the man-made doctrines they teach fall by the wayside.

]]> By: Deby http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-14138 Deby Tue, 07 Jun 2011 19:28:28 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-14138 Holiness is more than clothing, make-up, hair and jewelry. I found it odd that the concern of my church leaders was more on the hem of my skirt or the mascara on my lashes than on the condition of my heart. Now that I'm finally old enough and slightly more mature ;) I see that my relationship with God doesn't hinge on my outward appearance the way I thought it once did. Do I still wear dresses and skirts? Yes, I mostly wear dresses and skirts. Do I wear make-up? Yes, I wear natural looking make-up. Do I cut and dye my hair? Yes, I cut and dye my hair. Do I believe that any of these things will keep me out of heaven? No way! I spent a lot of time and guilt on these issues and have finally found peace. Great Job Josh on your blog. I look forward to reading more. -Deby Holiness is more than clothing, make-up, hair and jewelry. I found it odd that the concern of my church leaders was more on the hem of my skirt or the mascara on my lashes than on the condition of my heart. Now that I’m finally old enough and slightly more mature ;) I see that my relationship with God doesn’t hinge on my outward appearance the way I thought it once did. Do I still wear dresses and skirts? Yes, I mostly wear dresses and skirts. Do I wear make-up? Yes, I wear natural looking make-up. Do I cut and dye my hair? Yes, I cut and dye my hair. Do I believe that any of these things will keep me out of heaven? No way!

I spent a lot of time and guilt on these issues and have finally found peace.

Great Job Josh on your blog. I look forward to reading more.

-Deby

]]> By: Josh (Site Admin) http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-13787 Josh (Site Admin) Fri, 27 May 2011 15:55:55 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-13787 M, All of the holiness standards you listed are a small price to pay compared to what Christ did for us. If I thought for a moment that He wanted me to do those things then I would do them just to please Him. It wouldn't matter to me whether or not doing them or not doing them would send me to hell, I would just want to please my Savior. However, God does not ask us to do these things. "Better safe than sorry" is meaningless in relation to the things you described because they are simply not in Scripture. It would be like me saying "I only wear pink shirts because I'd rather be safe than sorry." Your reaction would be, "Where on earth did you get the idea that you needed to wear pink shirts?" My reaction is the same with holiness standards: Where on earth did we get the idea that they're necessary? They're simply not Scriptural. At best, holiness standards put an unnecessary burden on the Christian. At worst, they cause us to seek to be justified before Christ through our efforts, thereby cutting us off from the very one we are trying to please (cf. Gal. 5:1-12). Regarding separation from the world: The Scripture you are referring to (2. Cor. 6:17) has nothing to do with what we wear. The Scripture is a warning against idolatry. Trying to apply it to clothing just doesn't work. For example, I am a man, and my clothing is the same as other mens' clothing, whether or not they are Christians. If I am to try to be "separate from the world" in the way that I dress then what do I need to do? Wear dresses? And what do I do with my facial hair, since some non-Christian men have beards and some don't? And what about my hair? And my shirts? And my glasses? How am I to be different from the world in all of those things? Trying to apply "be ye separate" to clothing just doesn't work. It becomes nonsense. It's easy to throw that Scripture around when trying to defend holiness standards for women, but if we are to be consistent then we also have to apply the Scripture to holiness standards for men. That's when we see that it jsut doesn't make sense. In Christ, - Josh S. M,

All of the holiness standards you listed are a small price to pay compared to what Christ did for us. If I thought for a moment that He wanted me to do those things then I would do them just to please Him. It wouldn’t matter to me whether or not doing them or not doing them would send me to hell, I would just want to please my Savior.

However, God does not ask us to do these things. “Better safe than sorry” is meaningless in relation to the things you described because they are simply not in Scripture. It would be like me saying “I only wear pink shirts because I’d rather be safe than sorry.” Your reaction would be, “Where on earth did you get the idea that you needed to wear pink shirts?” My reaction is the same with holiness standards: Where on earth did we get the idea that they’re necessary? They’re simply not Scriptural.

At best, holiness standards put an unnecessary burden on the Christian. At worst, they cause us to seek to be justified before Christ through our efforts, thereby cutting us off from the very one we are trying to please (cf. Gal. 5:1-12).

Regarding separation from the world: The Scripture you are referring to (2. Cor. 6:17) has nothing to do with what we wear. The Scripture is a warning against idolatry. Trying to apply it to clothing just doesn’t work. For example, I am a man, and my clothing is the same as other mens’ clothing, whether or not they are Christians. If I am to try to be “separate from the world” in the way that I dress then what do I need to do? Wear dresses? And what do I do with my facial hair, since some non-Christian men have beards and some don’t? And what about my hair? And my shirts? And my glasses? How am I to be different from the world in all of those things?

Trying to apply “be ye separate” to clothing just doesn’t work. It becomes nonsense. It’s easy to throw that Scripture around when trying to defend holiness standards for women, but if we are to be consistent then we also have to apply the Scripture to holiness standards for men. That’s when we see that it jsut doesn’t make sense.

In Christ,
- Josh S.

]]> By: rocky http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-13765 rocky Thu, 26 May 2011 23:54:59 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-13765 I believe in holiness also but clothing wont make anyone holy. I have asked preachers to show me one verse in the Bible where a man wore pants and and would preach it with them, but there is none. I believe in holiness also but clothing wont make anyone holy.
I have asked preachers to show me one verse in the Bible where a man wore pants and and would preach it with them, but there is none.

]]> By: McKenzie http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-13757 McKenzie Thu, 26 May 2011 15:57:39 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-13757 Please. Don't go bashing UPC for their standards of holiness. I'm United Pentecostal, Apostolic, One God, Holy Ghost filled Christian and I would rather be safe then sorry. Hell is not a price I'm willing to pay. If I have to wear shirts with decent sleeves, skirts to the knee or below, no make up or Jewelery and not cut my hair. It's worth it. 'Separation from God' also means being separate from the world, and how are you supposed to be a light, by being different from the world, if you look and act like everyone else in the world? M. Please. Don’t go bashing UPC for their standards of holiness. I’m United Pentecostal, Apostolic, One God, Holy Ghost filled Christian and I would rather be safe then sorry. Hell is not a price I’m willing to pay. If I have to wear shirts with decent sleeves, skirts to the knee or below, no make up or Jewelery and not cut my hair. It’s worth it.

‘Separation from God’ also means being separate from the world, and how are you supposed to be a light, by being different from the world, if you look and act like everyone else in the world?

M.

]]> By: Josh (Site Admin) http://www.whyileft.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-5961 Josh (Site Admin) Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:39:21 +0000 http://test.jspiers.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about/what-does-the-bible-say-about-holiness/#comment-5961 Sunil, please email me directly at jmspiers@gmail.com. It would be my delight to talk and pray with you =) In Christ, - Josh S. Sunil, please email me directly at jmspiers@gmail.com. It would be my delight to talk and pray with you =)

In Christ,
- Josh S.

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