What does the Bible say about women wearing pants?
The first thing that we must understand when asking this question is that no one in the Bible wore pants. They did not exist back then—at least not in the form we have them today. Because of this, the Bible never dealt with the subject of women wearing pants. [Note: I have added an article on what the Israelites did wear when they were in Egypt and during the Exodus.] The Mosaic Law does, however, deal with the subject of cross-dressing. The Mosaic Law says, "A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God" (Deut. 22:5 NASB). The argument against women wearing pants that I always heard when I was in the UPC was this:
- Deut. 22:5 applies to us today. Even though we are not under the Mosaic Law anymore, something that is an abomination to God is always an abomination. (This is based off of Rev. 21:27, which says that "no one who practices abomination" (KJV) will enter into the New Jerusalem.)
- Since pants are men’s apparel, and dresses are women’s apparel, it is an abomination for a woman to wear pants or for a man to wear dresses.
Notice that I said that this is the argument that I heard during my time in the UPC. It is only fair to say that the official position paper of the UPC uses a different line of reasoning. They say, "[W]e should avoid…slacks on women because they immodestly reveal the feminine contours of upper leg, thigh, and hip1."
In this article I am going to take a look at both views, and then I’ll wrap up with an important point about hypocrisy.
Edit (1/2/07): I found another position paper from the UPCI on men and women’s apparel. In this other paper they do use a modified form of the Deut. 22:5 argument.
Are Slacks Automatically Immodest?
I think that it is ridiculous to say that slacks are inherently more immodest than dresses. Slacks and dresses can be immodest. It is possible that pants on a woman would have been considered immodest 200 years ago in many Western societies, but that’s pure conjecture. Either way, I know of no man in Western culture who is automatically thrown into temptation because a woman wears pants. What we have to deal with is what is modest today, not what was modest 200 years ago or 2,000 years ago. The Bible never defined modesty, it only told us to be modest.
Are Pants "Men’s Apparel"?
I do not think that pants can be thought of as only men’s apparel in modern Western culture. Cultures and dress codes change over time. They always have. When Deut. 22:5 was written men were probably wearing linen kilts and women were probably wearing "full-length, light weight, loose-fitting dresses2." In the mid-19th century men were wearing breeches and women were wearing dresses that did not show even their ankles. Yet now the dress code laid by the UPC is that women have to wear dresses but they can come up to the knee3. Why did they choose this style of apparel and not the style that was worn when Deut. 22:5 was written, or the style that was worn in the 19th century? The reason is that cultures and styles change, and the UPC apparently picked the style of apparel that happened to be in fashion when their doctrines started to develop.
There is no biblical excuse for taking a girl who is a third-generation wearer of pants and telling her that she has to only wear dresses. At some point we have to admit that culture has changed. Again, we’re concerned with what culture is now, not what it was in the 1800s and early 1900s.
Hypocrisy? The Pants Issue Can Be One Way or the Other, It Can’t Be Both
Let me talk to the preachers and teachers for a moment.
Many preachers and teachers in the UPC feel that Deut. 22:5 still applies to us today. I don’t take that view, but I’m not going to debate the point. What I will say is that if you are going to apply Deut. 22:5 to the pants vs. skirts debate then you have to apply it to everything. If you believe that it is an abomination for a woman to wear pants (because you feel that pants are men’s apparel) then you must be willing to make a complete prohibition against women wearing men’s apparel. For instance, many women in the UPC wear pajama pants but they will not wear pants in public. If pants are men’s apparel, and if it’s a sin for women to wear men’s apparel, then that means no pajama pants. It also means that a girl can’t put on her boyfriend’s jacket or her husband’s shirt, or any other article of clothing that is designed for a man.
It can be one way or the other, it can’t be both. It must be a complete prohibition or no prohibition at all. To preach against women wearing pants, and then allow your wife to wear pajama pants, is nothing less than total hypocrisy. If you do preach a complete prohibition against women wearing any men’s apparel then I will respect your view, even though I will continue to disagree with it. If you will not do that then I view your teaching as hypocritical in the extreme.
Conclusion
It is not safe to end this subject without pointing out that cross-dressing is almost definitely displeasing to God. When I say "cross-dressing" this is the usage that I am referring to:
Nearly every society throughout history has had a set of norms, views, guidelines, or laws regarding the wearing of clothing and what is appropriate for each gender. Cross-dressing is a behavior which runs counter to those norms4.
I do think that we can extrapolate from Scripture that God would be displeased with someone deliberately dressing in a manner that identifies them with the opposite gender. However, I do not think that a woman wearing pants should be considered cross-dressing. As I said before, women wearing pants is part of the accepted norm in modern Western culture.
References:
- United Pentecostal Church International, Position Paper on Modesty, Accessed 2006-12-30 21:10:16 [↩]
- Nelson’s Bible Manners & Customs: How the People of the Bible Really Lived, "5.2 The People of God Wandering In the Wilderness", ed. Howard F. Vos [↩]
- United Pentecostal Church International, Position Paper on Modesty, Accessed 2006-12-30 21:10:16 [↩]
- Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Cross-dressing, Accessed 2006-12-30 23:20:05 [↩]
September 2nd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
As far as the pants isuue is concerned, I would say that not all women’s pants can be considered immodest, men wear pants that are loose fitting and that would be acceptable, however if the man wore pants two sizes to small or big that definately would be beyond the bounds of proper appearal as it pertains to a Christian.
Because our culture has changed so much it concerns me as to the style of a wide majority of womens pants which are very form fitting. However, the wearing of proper clothing is always taught as it is a benefit to you, edifying you, but is it not so as to not allure a member of the opposite sex?
Sure, proper fitting clothing does provide for a good testimony, but if you are wearing dresses and no jewlery as part of your outward sanctification, then would you not be basing your relationship with God upon your works, and be as guilty as the person wearing flashy clothing to attract attention?
My problem is with those that feel they are better or closer to God than someone else because of thier clothing or lack of flashy outward appearal.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Thankfully I was delivered from the cultic Apostolic/Penetecostal churches.
I could tell so many horror stories that people would think I was making it up
Its child abuse on the kids especially
November 6th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I agree that there should be consistency in regard to cross dressing & often teach this at my church. God doesn’t apply this verse (which I certainly believe applies to us today) only from the waist down! They did have pants in Bible days, called breeches, which is probably why the 1st pants were knickers, emulating the style of breeches. Significantly, it was only the priests/men who wore these breeches…women were forbidden to wear breeches in the Bible. Yes, cultures change, but what’s an abomination to God doesn’t (i.e., homosexuality, beastality,etc.). What about men wearing dresses today? Surely you’ve heard about the man who sued his workplace for them disallwoing him to wear a skirt. What about when culture begins to swing this way? What Scriptural injunction will you appeal to? History, as well as word studies indicate that the womens apparel (simlah) was a wrapper styled garment enveloping the body so as not to reveal the shape thereof. But the man’s garment contained a split between the legs, so as to free them up to work & stride as a man. Interestingly, in orthodox Judaism even today women do not wear pants based upon this verse. I have numerous newspaper articles from Israel that explicitly state/demonstrate this. These people probably understand the OT nuances far better than us today in America. At any rate, those who truly fear God should be very concerned w/ what He designates as “Abominable” to Him. We need to do SOMETHING w/ such a matter, at the very least. [EDIT: Phone # removed]
November 6th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Roger, the comments you made are simply incorrect. I will not let this Web site degenerate into a debate forum, so I am going to briefly refute each one of your points. After this comment, you will have said your piece and I will have responded, so I reserve the right to delete future comments of yours on this thread. Again, I will not let this site turn into a place for people to fight and debate.
I do not expect to change your mind through refuting any of your points. I am writing this for the benefit of others.
1. Women began to wear knickers in the 19th century. There is absolutely no relation to knickers and anything worn by women in “the Bible days” (”The Bible days,” by the way, covered 4,000 years of various customs and cultures, so please be specific about exactly which Bible days you are talking about. I have already written an article talking about what people wore in the Wilderness when the Mosaic Law was given. That is the only period that we need to be concerned about when discussing Deut. 22:5.).
2. I’m sure some culture, somewhere, in between 4,000 B.C. and 90 A.D., had a custom where women wore breeches or pants or split robes or whatever. It’s irrelevant, though, because the only period we are concerned with is what the Israelites wore when the Mosaic Law was given.
3. Women could not be priests, so it’s pointless to bring priestly apparel into the discussion.
4. Men in cultures throughout history have worn kilts and robes. It is not common for men in Western culture to wear “dresses,” so, until it becomes a problem, I’ll consider debating the issue a waste of time.
5. The garments of men did not contain a split between the legs when the Mosaic Law was given. And that is the only period we need to be concerned with when discussing Deu. 22:5. What the Orthodox Jews of today do is their business, not mine.
6. I disagree that the Orthodox Jews “understand the OT nuances far better than us today in America.” Christians have plenty of Old Testament scholars too.
If you would like to dialogue more on this point then please email me. I will respond as I have time. The comments area is not intended as a place for debates. Thanks.
November 21st, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I Peter 2:9 says that we are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation. That constitutes a difference in that we should not conform to the world, as you are suggesting, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Man and culture has tried to change what constitutes a woman’s apparel and a man’s, but I say God has designated the difference and we should be slow to justify ourselves and what we think, with not only study, but prayer as well. I would study and stick to the old paths as much as possible. I believe that when people receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, the Lord God Almighty, will reveal his ways to an honest heart that diligently seeks Him. It’s not my place to conform standards on someone, but to teach with love and diligence what I have been taught and where God leads me. If me and my wife stand together and you have to look twice to tell a difference, something is really wrong. We should look at Deut. 22:5 and realize a woman should look like a woman and a man a man, any other way is abomination unto God. A holy dressed woman is a the single biggest witness to God’s glory as far as appearance, because that is our first witness above all else. I’m sorry that you have taken such a soft approach with living for the One who died for our sins. As for me and my house we choose to serve The Lord with all of my heart soul, mind and strength.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:10 am
Why don’t men in today’s society wear dresses and skirts and blouses In public places like to the stores and resturants? if its socialy acceptable in public places for women to wear pants why is it not for men to wear dresses and skirt and blouses.
April 27th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I think that it is great that you have this site not just for former UPCs but also for those who have people in their lives that are of the ONE movement
My question is how do you approach a member who uses the doctrine as a force to so to speak put you in place?thanks again for all the insight and the simple way
May 13th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I think Dorothee’ s point is quite simplistic. Consider this, I noticed a male sometime ago (2008) wearing a pants that just did not look proper.
It was not looking proper because it was thigh only, but also it design.
Just imagine a man wearing a knickers. We must accept that there is male and female pants.
I am not an advocate of female wearing pants thought, not beacuse of Due 22.
May 16th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
What gets me with this whole Deuteronomy passage is that it’s really not about outward appearances. I was attending an apostolic holy temple for a few months and was sucked into the world, but thanks to Jesus and the people he has blessed in my life I was able to get out.
I still cannot wrap my mind around this whole women must wear skirts ordeal. look down farther at Deuteronomy 22:11: Don’t wear clothes made of wool and linen… It’s talking of not mixing different fabrics together. So then I must feel a conviction to not wear my polyester blend clothing, or my cotton/spandex mix.
What bothers me so about this passage is what it is saying is don’t try to be what you aren’t! Do not try to be a man if you are a woman or vice versa. Men wore robes, and skirts many places in the bible, so then I am guessing men have to wear skirts too. If that is the ludicrous statement that is going to be made, does it not have to go both ways.
My problem with people interpreting this passage like that, just goes about how legalistic things are. Where is the heart in it? Where is God in it? If we are going to be so legalistic, where are the head wraps for women in the church? Are the women allowed to speak up in church, or does everything they say have to be through their husbands? If we are going to follow Deuteronomy 22:5, then we best start following those too.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:32 am
Good day
I really think this topic is very sensitive and it should be that we are led by the spirit of God before we can understand why God does not want us to wear make-up and pants, etc. The only time when people will really accept this and change accordingly is if they are convicted by the Holy Spirit, we always say when God speaks we should listen, but the irony is that no one actually listens the 1st time around we only start listening when He speaks hard/loud that’s when something bad happens to us.
The one thing that we must not forget as “christians” is if we call ourselves “christians” meaning christlike we cannot expect to look and act like the world because when we become born again we become new creatures in God, meaning all old things fall away and God should install the new things in our lives (and not we ourselves) than and than only will we understand what holiness/godliness means when the spirit of the Lord convicts us when we not @ the right place or doing the right thing and even wearing the right stuff on our bodies which He also says is His temple.
June 1st, 2009 at 9:54 am
“Norms” are a hidebound conformist’s argument for brainless status quo. But if a “norm” is based on INTRINSIC (bras are female because they only interface with female bodies) THEN it’s a principle that traverses ALL cultures and all time. A garment being a style difference does NOT render it a sex difference—nor does commonly associated use render it a sex difference. The existence of stereotyped “norms” is a useless block against progress. It’s saying “because most people do it this way, we are ready to drag you down the path of doing it this way also.” This is the same spirit as the Holy Roman Catholic Inquisition, if very diluted. Greek soldiers wear a skirt that looks like a petticoat. Sin? Never! Jesus told the Centurion his was the greatest faith. Those soldiers wore skirts. “There is nothing new under the sun” INCLUDING stupid calls for conformity. God is not against innovation, and He made us individuals. Collectivization is wrong—it is watered down STALINISM. The Romans first term for pants was “FEMINALIA.”
June 18th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I think this issue is no different than the other outward standards issues (makeup, jewelry) in that we’ve taken the symptom and tried to fix a problem by making a bunch of rules to hide the symptoms. If a woman is unsubmitted, rebellious, or seductive, she might desire to present her body in a way that is masculine or immodest. But making a rule that says “only wear skirts” doesn’t make that woman more feminine or modest– although it might make her *appear* that way, outwardly.
I think if a woman truly seeks God and asks him daily to guide her choice of dress, she will naturally make choices that are modest, feminine, and pleasing to God…. and what is considered modest and feminine may change based on location and activity.
I’ve seen women in skirts that look, talk, and act like dykes (no offense, you can edit that if you want). I’ve seen women in pants (it’s unusual but possible) who are very modest… and I’ve definitely seen women in pants who are feminine. I think it’s EASIER to be modest and feminine in a (proper) skirt or dress (with the exception of athletic activities), but that doesn’t mean ALL pants are inherently immodest. I’m personally uncomfortable with the way most jeans and slacks reveal the line of the rear end, crotch, and thigh, but a tunic-length, flowy blouse can help cover that.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Thanks. Very interesting article.
I grew up in the “no pants on women” times. But the more I honestly studied the Bible, the more I noticed that it was man’s private interpretations that really fuel the issue. And you should know that the Bible is of no private interpretation, 2 Pet 1:20. Meaning, scripture is not up for man’s interpretation or bias. It says what it says and that is all that it says. There are enough precepts and principles in the Bible; we do not need to add our own preferences. When you add your bias to what God has said you are in effect saying that what God said was not good enough.
The whole issue is similar to the situation found in Acts 15… Some Jewish Christians were telling the newer Gentile Christians; “You have to be circumcised and follow the Law of Moses like we do…” (paraphrased). However, Peter in vs 6-11 straightened things out. Paul also dealt with the same situation in Gal 5 pointing out that we are free from that “yoke of bondage”, and voluntarily placing ourselves under “bondage” only makes us susceptible to the whole law.
Furthermore, God does not get glory in “Christians” who deny themselves of things that He Himself has not forbidden them. Does God get glory from monks who deny themselves possessions and take a vow of celibacy? I think not. Does God get glory from a devotee who crawls miles on their knees to pray to an idol? Definitely not. I know those two illustrations are of Catholic origin, but they truly believe they are worshiping in that way. Why do we as true Christians believe similarly to this; that by adding to God’s word our own preferences we are closer to God?
There is an account of a character in the Bible who was a very powerful character. He was as close to God as anyone could get. So close in fact that He could actually touch God. He even led God’s worship choir. However, he thought he could do one better and wanted to be like God. He tried to add to what God had allowed for him and, subsequently, got tossed out of heaven. From then on he has been adding and taking away from God’s word in attempt to ruin God’s prized creation. Mankind. If you haven’t guessed it yet, the character was Lucifer. Why make his job easier by adding our own biases to God’s word?…
Thanks for letting me comment.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
The word of God is true all by itself and if God said women should not wear mans clothing than they should not. People always try a reason not to obey the word of the Lord. God said obedience is better than sacrifice. So, my question to you would be are you willing to take the chance that when Christ comes you did not obey and it cost you from going to heaven, it’s not worth it.
July 9th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Men’s clothing–that is pretty broad and very open to interpretation. Both sexes have pants that are gender specific.
July 17th, 2009 at 1:14 am
when your about to go to the restroom. which sign do you go into? the man with pants on? or the woman with the SKIRT on? just a thought.
In the deut. 22:55 it says “a woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your god.”
in these days men wear pants and woman “should” wear skirts. woman never started wearing pants until the 17 hundards. now things have changed.
plus, skirts are more modest than pants. SOME. put thats a heart issue right there. all of this is a heart issue and what your walk with god consists on. i am a pentecostal woman.
also you dont see woman wearing skirts EVERYDAY. its different.
I Peter 2:9 says that “we are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation. That constitutes a difference in that we should not conform to the world, as you are suggesting, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
i dont want to be like this world.
but different.
holy.
modest.
woman of god.
August 1st, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Pants as a man’s only garment is far more recent then most people think. We look at pictures from the middle ages and it looks like the men are mostly wearing pants, but thery’re not-what they’re actually wearing are tunics that go down to the knee and leggings that go up past the tunic’s skirt.Trousers as we know them didn’t become common in Europe until the sixteenth century. The modern garment that a man’s tunic most resembales would be a woman’s mini-dress.
Is a Scotsman wearing a kilt cross-dressing? Hardly. In traditional Scottish Highland culture kilts are strictly men’s garb. Until recently, women didn’t wear them! In southeast asia both men and women commanly wear long skirts called sarongs, but they’re not unisex-men wear their sarongs with a checked pattern, while women wear theirs with a more solid color or perhaps a floral pattern. So the way I see it, a woman wearing pants that are made to fit a woman’s body and designed in a feminine manner than these examples here.
August 6th, 2009 at 3:18 am
I think this whole thing is STUPID! The day and age we are living in and all christians can talk about is what they shoud wear, when you got men and women going to hell every minute. I have never read anything in the bible about women wearing pants. and please dont throw up deut. 22:55. Im not living under a law. When Jesus died so did the Law. Praise God. However, I have read many times we should be a witness for the Lord, not go out and do his job and judge others, like so many christians today do. I know a church that will turn a sinner girl/woman away if they come and are not wearing a skirt, or dress. I feel like the people of that church will pay for that, because that was a soul that could have got saved, but they turned them away. Do you think Jesus would have done that. NO!!!! He would not have. My Bible tell me that Jesus came for the sinner, so they would be saved. I am just so thankful I don’t fall into your group of christians
August 11th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
I guess we will have to disagree concerning this issue. I do agree witht the young lady about the lost. I will continue to preach the Apostolic message and let you folks fight about the things that have caused such a horrible war of words between you and the UPC. It’s not perfect, but I believe and do my best to uphold their Biblical views. I am not brainwashed nor troubled of mind, but do believe the message. My God bless and keep you all!
August 12th, 2009 at 9:37 am
FROM MRS. HARDY’S POST–”So, my question to you would be are you willing to take the chance that when Christ comes you did not obey and it cost you from going to heaven, it’s not worth it.”
My question to you and everone else who feels so strongly about your UPC dress code–are you willing to take the chance that when Christ comes that you will stand before Him and have to explain why you judged others when He is the only judge? How will you feel when he shows you the hurt that your judgmental attitude has caused–the divide it has created.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:58 am
I agree with Marie. When people use Deuteronomy to defend their view of women not wearing skirts, they are going back under the law. Read Galatians again and see what Paul had to say about making one of the mosaic laws necessary for your salvation. The attitude of the Pharisees was the same as many in the UPC church. We are saved through GRACE not works, such as the wearing of skirts and such. The greatest commandment is love God. the second greatest is love others. When was the last time YOU stopped to help the guy broken down on the side of the road? If not, do you REALLY love others- or are you just trying to LOOK like a follower of Christ? By their fruit ye shall know them! Is your fruit contentiousness and judgementalness (as the Pharisees) or love, joy, and peace as spoken of by Christ?
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:45 am
I believe that God wanted his people to be seperate. When you walk down the street, you cannot visually seperate the Baptist from the athesist. Didn’t Jesus say that he wanted you to be a house on a hill, not to hid your candlestick, and other things. I believe that God wanted us to be different and to let your light shine to others. You cannot say that when a women of the Pentacostal faith walks into a store, that you don’t think, she probably goes to a pentecostal church. Many times I have been approached by women of another denomination and they have asked me to pray for them. They didn’t know me, they just knew that by my outward apperance that I was a firm believer in Christ. The bible tell us to not judge either way it goes.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 am
Hi all, I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes here I just want to state my belief. I am a true believer in what the Bible says, and when it says you should not wear anything that “pertaineth” to a man we should do it, for it is an “abomination”. Deut. 22:5 Men & women wore robes for most of history, BUT they were worn differently. The woman wore a long flowing robe, and men wore a shorter and tighter robe. Underneath the woman’s robe would be nothing. Underneath the man’s robe would be a pair of short pants that would go down to the knees. Whenever a man would have to do some type of labor, such as to team up an ox, pull a trailer or dig a hole, he would pull up his skirt and tuck it in his pants that were under his skirt, and that was called in the Bible “girding up your loins.” Women were not permitted to do so. Women in the Bible did not wear crotched garments (i.e. pants) nor at any time in the human history until the 20th century. God made a clear distinction between man and woman.
The Jeans is called “breeches” in Exodus 28:42 (in tagalog word for Filipinos are salawal, pantalon, kalson) and obviously this was only being used by men. North America I have found has become “numb” by society and what they say is the norm for women. In the Bible it says not to conform to the world in Romans 12:2.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Hi Sherri, all comments are welcome, and I thank you for sharing!
Would you mind citing your references, please? I have never heard of the types of garments that you are describing being worn in the Wilderness era (although clothing did change later).
I wrote an article on what the Israelites wore in the Wilderness. The link is http://www.whyileft.org/general/how-did-the-israelites-dress-in-the-wilderness-when-deuteronomy-225-was-written/. If you’ve got more recent information from other scholarly resources then please let me know! I make every effort to be sure that the information on this site is correct :)
God bless,
- Josh Spiers
November 27th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
This is a fascinating site. Thank you for sharing your story.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
I have been arguing this topic for years with my Apostolic Pentecostal parents and I am still forced to live under their “standards” (AKA those rediculous, pointless, stupid rules that limits me to only skirts). Addressing the issue that pants are ONLY a man’s garment, I don’t believe in that.
In the “Bible days” society perceived a robe type-thing to be both a man and a woman’s garmet with certain distinctions that are commonly known throughout their coulture. In the 1700-1800s, men only wore trousers and women only wore dresses– that was the couture (so now we already have men going from robes to pants). Then it evolved into women wearing pants as well as the men in the 1900s-present. That’s just the way it is and it’s the way that the couture or society perceives it to be. If we were living back in the ancient times when Deu. was written then it would be acceptable for a man to wear robes as well as the women but now you don’t see a man wearing a robe– we would think that he was strange or a transvestite. Now, most people think that it is strange for a woman to only wear skirts or dresses because that’s how society is dressing and that way of dressing is acceptable and appropraite in modern times. If we think that it is a sin to follow the “fashion trends” like wearing pants instead of dressing like the rest of the 21st century (but remember: this debate is only for women, men are free to wear whatever they please), then is it also a sin to follow other fashion trends as long as it is not violating the whole “skirt law”? Not by what I see my parent’s church dressing (including the pastors wife, daughter, etc.)
I call myself a Christian by separating myself from the world in my behavior (in which I do my best to act like God would want me too), but I do not call myself an Apostolic Pentecostal because I strongly disagree with the standards and beliefs associated with that denomination. I do feel that holiness is definitely important to leading a Christian life but that means not wearing revealing, formfitting clothing– not just wearing skirts which by the way can get very formfitting which I see a lot of in that same church that my parents go to.
December 12th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
God bless Everyone
Let me put this on the table I’m not a UPCI minister nor will
I ever be… I do agree that pants should only be worn by men
why do I agree the 1st reason is
The first woman to start wearing pants was a feminist activists
who started a big fuss and she rebelled against the whole woman
wearing dresses back in the days a woman who wore pants
was either working in the mines and she was thought to be
Masculine now here the problem I have why Christians should take
Part in anything that’s rebellion…
2nd the body of a woman is much different then the body
of a man pants on a woman show parts that should not be shown
“PLEASE DON’T SAY WELL NOT IF YOU WEAR THEM LOSE”
No woman is going to wear a fitted woman jacket and baggy slacks
Also the pants back then had a skirt attached to the pants lol
Feel free to Google what I’m saying
The Bible let’s us know how we should dress and how we should
Present our self in modesty and Holiness which starts from
The inside and shines on the outside we are called to be set apart
Not to take on worldly customs
Thanks to all
December 24th, 2009 at 7:08 am
My candid view about this issue is that anyone who is going to criticize a fellow christian for wearing pants should also consider other clothing worn majorly by men that women wear apart from pants. T-shirts, shirts, face cap, tie and many others are mostly associated with men but we find women wearing them today, in some cases a particular color of shirt will be chosen as the choir uniform which both men and women alike wear. the question now is this, why is the fuss about pants and nothing is said about shirts and the likes. Let us not take any portion of the bible and twist it to suit our belief.The bible teaches in the book of 1st Peter and 1Timothy about modesty: what is most important is that a christian woman should dress modestly and not be associated with the craze of opening of the cleavage and other sensitive parts of the body(most so called Christians are guilty) which is the fashion in the world today.
As a christian, depend on the Holy Spirit to guide your mind into choosing the appropriate clothing that will glorify God and edify others and not cause them to stumble.”If in anything you are otherwise minded, God will reveal even this to you ” Amen
January 13th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
I have conflicting views on this. I, too, would like someone’s explanation on why it’s ok for a woman to wear t-shirts. Look up the history of t-shirts and you will clearly see they were created and designed for men. Why is it now ok for women to wear them? Also, for those of you that think women should not wear pants, do you think it’s okay for them to wear pajamas? How is that justified? Not trying to argue, I just honestly would like answers to those questions.
Thank you.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:44 am
I agree with Lois.. by the way, contact Josh, he is a good person..
January 21st, 2010 at 2:37 pm
The more I study the bible , the more I am convinced that the longhaired men , pants wearing women , and christian rock lovers will enter the kingdom far before 90% of the funamentalists ever will.
By the way I use the term “fundamentalist” loosely. I’m a real bible believing fundamentalist , and as such see no reason to add to the bible things that are not there.
These fundie nutjobs are the very reason people leave christianity. They are also the reason people stay away from it. Ill tell ya how you can tell who’s a real christian. Who’s done more work for the kingdom…….peter ruckmann or michael bloodgood? I rest my case and wish the fundie nutjobs would repent or get their own country or something
January 21st, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Actually , let me take that back. I think the fundies are right. I mean , I can’t even see a woman with jeans on in the local wal-mart without picturing her having a mustache as well. Its true! I swear! Thank god for the fundies for pointing this out to me.
Also , every time I hear a christian rock song , I start convulsing and green stuff starts spewing from my mouth! Its the beat , ya know?
Also , when I grew long hair back when I was 13 , satan immidiatly came to my bedside asking me if I wanted to make a deal.
People listen to the fundies they are gods chosen
January 21st, 2010 at 7:45 pm
I think that what Colossians 2:23 says can well apply to the UPC holiness standards:
Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
In other words, following ‘holiness standards’ does not make one holy.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:55 am
i think whats going on in the pentecostal church ain’t all right,how do they think some one feel when they tell them they going to hell because they got hair on their face, and their little sister is going too be cause she wears pants. the biggest sin is telling people this and killing peoples faith,how you may ask because another child of god is saying thats not true. tell me what that would do to your faith in getting to heaven.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:55 pm
My experience with the issue of women wearing pants. I simply asked God. I went to bed one night with this particular subject on my mind, I wanted to know the truth from God Himself, and HIS will. I was confused and wanted the truth. I even told God, if I was wrong for this ignorance I would repent, I prayed to the point of tears until I fell asleep, this thing was in my spirit bad. I wanted the truth and not man’s theology. A couple of hours later I was awakened out of my sleep with the words “THERE’S A DIFFERENCE”., that’s all I heard “THERE’S A DIFFERENCE” From that time forward I never questioned this topic again. My conviction is that pants are a mans garment, women that wear them are worldly, and there is a difference between the women of world and God’s women. Honestly look on the inside of yourself and you will find the answer. The next time you are out and have to use the restroom, what’s the first thing you do? Don’t you look at the door s? How do you distinguish which door to walk through? The lady has on a dress. If the world know better, what about us in the church. Think about it.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I forgot to insert the following, I am not of the apostolic faith. I’m non-demominational
February 4th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Went to two or three Churches when i was a child. Went to a Pentecostal Holiness Church when i was 11 years old. I loved it and felt drawn by the Lord in that Church. Out of Church for 24 years. Back in Church. Baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit in a Apostolic Church. Am working at G.E. out in the factory, hadn’t given up wearing my slacks. Although i felt condemned every day that i wore them. They were my every day wear. Getting dressed for work one day the Holy Spirit let me know not to wear my slacks. I was miserable. I just did not want to give up my slacks. I knew that i would feel embrassed. I kept asking myself what would the other workers think or say from then on. I knew that there would be no going back. I tried on several skirts and blouses. Nothing looked right. I still wanted to wear my slacks. I went to work that day wearing a skirt and blouse. I got respect and friendship from the people that i worked with. I quit G.E.after that because of personal problems. That has been 25 years ago. I always wore my dresses and skirts mid-calf. Maybe its because of my 70 years of age now i wear mostly ankle length skirts and dresses. Jewelry and make-up were never a part of my life. I smoked cigerettes for 25 years. A fter i got in Church i prayed day and night for two weeks for God to take away the desire of the cigerettes. Woke up one morning the desire of the cigerettes was gone .That has been 25 years ago. The Lord Jesus has worked wonders in my life and has kept ,me safe from harm. I, can never give him enough PRAISE FOR LOVING AND CARING FOR ME AND TAKING AWAY MY WORDLY DESIRES OF THE FLESH.
February 5th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
I grew up basically not knowing anything. When I was 21 I came to know the Lord as my friend and father. I never knew that pants, shorts, bathing suits, etc were immodest on a woman. I know you mentioned that pants today on a woman is not immodest, but I disagree. Take a look around today and see the types of pants that women wear. They are normally tight and show everything that God gave her. If you look at a picture of a woman with pants on what is the first thing your eyes draw too? The crotch. With a dress or skirt at least it leaves more to the imagination. When I say dress or skirt I am talking long enough and lose enough that is MODEST.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am
I am of the apostolic persuasion and will never change the principles of my belief. Jesus is God, been baptized in Jesus’ name and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance. God’s greatest commandment is to love. I have been persuaded through all of my trials and tribulations that God Himself looks on the heart. I too used to be the no-jewelry and no-pants teachings, but they are no longer my convictions. I used to say that if you wore pants or wore jewelry that you were doomed to hell. I saw people on television wearing pants and jewelry teaching, preaching, and singing the praises of God and condemned them to hell. How could they be saved? And many years down the line I am weariing Jewelry and wearing pants. At this stage in my life and my relationship with God gives way to the more important things. No I am not like the world, nor do I look like them. I do everything in modesty. When I dress either in a dress or in pants, I do not do it in a fashion to take the attention away from God. I minister with the anointing God gave me in the Holy Ghost and allow God to draw lost souls to Him. That is my mission. To win the lost at any cost. I don’t condemn people because of what they have on, anymore, but I do believe that there is a standard that all Godly women should implore as far as how they dress. No Godly woman should want to expose their bodies to become temptation for man’s downfall, and likewise any Godly man should not want to present themselves as temptations. You can be just as Godly with a pair of pants as well as with a dress or skirt. You can be just as worldly with a skirt as well as a pair of pants. It depends on what is in your spirit and in your heart. If God is in your heart wholly, then with all His word will allow, you will be HOLY pants or skirt, jewelry or no jewelry, because He said, if your conscience does not condemn you neither will I. God will condemn then for what they have in their hearts. It took me years to get to this point. It saddens me when the church wants to clean someone up on the outside as opposed to what really constitutes a change in someone’s life. Surely when God, the Holy Spirit enters,He in Himself will bring certain changes, but let God do it. Teach modesty in the Holy Ghost and allow God to bring the necessary changes, if you believe in no-pants, no jewelry good, not banging you for that, but don’t condemn others. I’m just as saved now an even more so now that I’m really learning who God is and this awesome love He has for me, a love so great that it could nurse me back to spiritual health. And I wear pants and jewelry and Yet, I still saved. Don’t use scripture unwisely.
If we take everything literally, then women are not supposed to preach or teach in the church, and I was called by God to teach His word. Let’s make sure our research into scipture is not being guided by our own bias, because if we seek, we shall find. Sometimes man-made doctrine is Not what God proposed for holy living. And Holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. Lets not lose focus on the overall picture.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:56 am
I am of the apostolic persuasion and will never change the principles of my belief. Jesus is God, been baptized in Jesus’ name and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance. God’s greatest commandment is to love. I have been persuaded through all of my trials and tribulations that God Himself looks on the heart. I too used to be the no-jewelry and no-pants teachings, but they are no longer my convictions. I used to say that if you wore pants or wore jewelry that you were doomed to hell. I saw people on television wearing pants and jewelry teaching, preaching, and singing the praises of God and condemned them to hell. How could they be saved? And many years down the line I am weariing Jewelry and wearing pants. At this stage in my life and my relationship with God gives way to the more important things. No I am not like the world, nor do I look like them. I do everything in modesty. When I dress either in a dress or in pants, I do not do it in a fashion to take the attention away from God. I minister with the anointing God gave me in the Holy Ghost and allow God to draw lost souls to Him. That is my mission. To win the lost at any cost. I don’t condemn people because of what they have on, anymore, but I do believe that there is a standard that all Godly women should implore as far as how they dress. No Godly woman should want to expose their bodies to become temptation for man’s downfall, and likewise any Godly man should not want to present themselves as temptations. You can be just as Godly with a pair of pants as well as with a dress or skirt. You can be just as worldly with a skirt as well as a pair of pants. It depends on what is in your spirit and in your heart. If God is in your heart wholly, then with all His word will allow, you will be HOLY pants or skirt, jewelry or no jewelry, because He said, if your conscience does not condemn you neither will I. God will condemn then for what they have in their hearts. It took me years to get to this point. It saddens me when the church wants to clean someone up on the outside as opposed to what really constitutes a change in someone’s life. Surely when God, the Holy Spirit enters,He in Himself will bring certain changes, but let God do it. Teach modesty in the Holy Ghost and allow God to bring the necessary changes, if you believe in no-pants, no jewelry good, not banging you for that, but don’t condemn others. I’m just as saved now an even more so now that I’m really learning who God is and this awesome love He has for me, a love so great that it could nurse me back to spiritual health. And I wear pants and jewelry and Yet, I’m still saved. Don’t use scripture unwisely.
If we take everything literally, then women are not supposed to preach or teach in the church, and I was called by God to teach His word. Let’s make sure our research into scipture is not being guided by our own bias, because if we seek, we shall find. Sometimes man-made doctrine is Not what God proposed for holy living. And Holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. Lets not lose focus on the overall picture.
February 25th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
HOLINESS is on the inside not on the outside. This Holiness issue has been overlooked by many. God is Holy, so we must be holy. Yes, I must be holy. Just look at this site inchristalone.org
February 26th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
One of the gifts that God has blessed believers with is discernment and a brain! I would never twist the sciptures to fit my own personal agenda. I am a spirit-filled, Penetcostal woman, have short hair, wear slacks, make-up, and jewelry and know that the Lord and I are on the best of terms. Because the Lord has blessed us with insight and a brain, we can certainly examine the scriptures, the author of same, to whom it was written, and during which period in culture. There were certain customs and rules that pertained to social acceptance of a particular culture and time period. God has not spoken on these matters…man has, particularly Paul who wasn’t too thrilled about women in the first place!
I find the UPC church to be distressingly opressive to women and very backward in their approach to scripture. In what I have witnessed and experienced, they live in isolation, which is far different than living a holy life.
February 28th, 2010 at 1:20 am
I have been an apostolic woman for 30 years. I count it an honor to look holy and different from someone that says they are a christian, and looks just like every other woman in the world that holds no standards. Serving God is a sacrafice, that we do by choice. If you do whatever you want, that is no sacrafice. The apperance of a woman and man is carried over into the new testiment, you just have to study and understand the scripture. God will give understanding to those that really desire to have it.
I would rather look holy and dress holy and find out on judgement day that it wasn’t necessary and still make Heaven. If I chose to give up my standards and it was necessary and I miss Heaven, that is a sad place to be. I will grow old wearing my ankle length skirts, and be very proud of being Apostolic.
February 28th, 2010 at 5:36 am
is holiness merely a holy dress? or a skirt or a long sleeves? I find it hard to believe when some christians based their christianity on the outward not in the inward. Actually, being born again or even faith can’t save us.It is only Christ who can save..
February 28th, 2010 at 7:43 am
I just want to say that i feel so Honored and Blessed that for over “30 year’s ” now the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus has made me so happy inside knowing i can’t and don’t desire the wordly appearance of wearing the slack’s that i thought that i could never give up.I hadn’t worn slack’s for over (22 year’s).About (6 year’s )ago i was going through a time in my life that i went and bought a couple pair’s of slack’s. I wore a pair some place one day,i could hardly wait to get back home to get them off.I was miserable the whole time that i had them on. I felt so condemned. Praise the Lord Jesus for (CONDEMNATION).I said in another art icle that jewelry never meant nothing to me.I haven’t wore no kind of make-up in over”30″ year’s.The Lord Jesus also convicted me of cutting my hair and of shaving my legs.God made Adam and Eve the way that he wanted them to look.I don’t believe that he made Eve with shaved leg’s. If God had not wanted hair on a woman’s leg’s he would not have put it there. God said that his people would be a Peculiar People (Deut.14:20) I can’t say with
word’s how grateful i am to be one of “God’s Peculiar People”.
You alway’s hear in today’s time “thou shalt not judge “.(Well i judge the place’s that i go and won’t go, and the company that i keep and won’t keep. 2 Corinthian’s 6:14-18). (2 Peter 2 :20-22)For if after they have escaped the pollution’s of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they are again entangled therein,and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than,after they have known it,to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto themaccording to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (This won’t happen to none of us if our mind is stayed upon the Lord Jesus.)
Blanche
February 28th, 2010 at 8:19 am
I also want to say that the Lord Jesus picked 12 men to be his Diciple’s.
God created a role in life for the man to do. Genesis 3:17-19.
God created a role in life for the woman to do. Genesis 3:16
I have read and heard so many women say,that God look,s in the heart and does not look on the outside. Genesis 3:21 God made coat,s of skin,s to cover Adam and Eve,s nakedness. So i would say God does look and care how we dress our selves.
Blanche
March 1st, 2010 at 1:34 am
I also have this to say. I want to say that i Praise the Lord Jesus that it “has not” (ENTERED THE MIND of “MOST MEN”) across America and around the World to( CHANGE THEIR DRESS STYLE) of wearing (Pants and Shirt’s) and go to the (Wearing of Dresse’s, Skirt’s, and Blouse’s ,and Make-up.) I cant help but “Laugh” every time that it comes into my mind and i Picture a (Man Wearing a” Skirt and Blouse, or a Dress ,Pantyhose, Make-up, Jewelry and a Wig of Curly HAIR.) Most Men that i see when i go out in Public and what i saw on Television, “i dont have television in my Home any more”, have stayed with the (Custom AND GRACE of Wearing Pants and Shirts and have stayed) (”LOOKING LIKE A MAN.”)Praise Praise Prsise. I dont know about around the World, but here in America so many “Christian Women” have changed from being “Modest and Conservitive to Wordly.” It all goes back to when (”EVE REBELLED AGAINST GOD IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN AND ATE OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN”) I dont believe in WOMEN PASTORS/PREACHERS.
Blanche
March 9th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
I don’t know if this article will be on this site long enough for anyone to see it or not. But anyway here are some Scripture’s. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter time’s some shall depart from the Faith, giving heed to Seducing Spirit’s and Doctrine’s of Devil’s.
2 Timothy 3:12-13 Yea, and all that will live God’ly in Christ Jesus shall suffer Persecution. But evil men and seducer’s shall wax worse and worse, Deceiving and being Deceived.
4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound Doctrine; (but after their own lust’s) shall they heap to themselve’s teacher’s having itching ear’s, and they shall turn away their ear’s from the truth, and shall be turned into fable’s.
Titus 2:14 Who Gave Himself for us, that he might Redeem us from all Iniquity and Purify unto Himself (”a Peculiar People,) Zealous of good work’s.
2 Thessalonian’s 2:10 And with all Deceivableness of Unrighteousness in them that Perish; because they received not the Love of the Truth that they might be Saved.
1Peter 5:8 Be Sober, be Vigilant; because your (Adversary the Devil,walketh about , seeking whom he may Devour.)
(Be not Conformed to this World.)
March 29th, 2010 at 7:29 am
i belive that upc still can follow the laws and i kinda seems that you r trying 2 trash the upc like they have done somthing wrong 2 u…so wats ur deal wit em?
April 4th, 2010 at 12:06 am
Wow! There are a lot of responses and I have not read them but here is mine: The original definintions for “Wear” means “to be, become, or exist” and for “pertaineth” means an instrument made for war” and for “man” means “warrior” (taken from Deut 22:5).
I’d also like to say…why is the UPC only concerned about what a woman puts on her legs? T-shirts were specifically made for war (which only men engaged in back in the day AND if you refer the the true meaning of Dt 22:5 you will see women should not wear clothes of war or of a warrior) so stop wearing T-shirts! What about collared shirts on woman? C’mon people…if you are going to do this then go all the way! I agree with the author of this website here. So many scriptures taken out of context to justify man’s law. If this is YOUR conviction then let it be your conviction and not your salvation and don’t push it on others.
April 6th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
I was just wondering how many men are wearing mixed fabric without blue fringe?
April 24th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
(sigh)…. I have been UPC for 15 years now. The past two years, I have been struggling with this subject so bad that words cannot describe. I have 3 daughters who are small. It sickens me to know what they are going to go through in school and how bad they are going to be teased. Trust me, Ive been there! **All i know, is I want my family and myself to make it to heaven someday** Im a Registered Nurse and I wonder too about wearing pant scrubs to work? I have been wearing skirt uniforms and you wouldnt believe the stuff that has literally “soaked through my pantyhose.” Blah, sick! Im trying so hard to please GOD, NOT Man…..I dont know the right answer. I dont think anyone does or ever will. It is such a struggle for me. My children will do what :mommy does” and i just want it to be the RIGHT thing. The ONLY reason that i STILL practice this “modesty standard” is out of fear of the “WHAT IF” way of thinking…..please pray for me :( I want Gods will…..
April 24th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Jessica,
I feel your struggle. We’ve only been in the church for the past 5 years. Up until this last year I’ve not conformed to the standards because I don’t believe in them However we have a daughter who is 5 (and one more on the way) My husband is convinced of the standards and so insists that our daughter wear only skirts. This past year she’s really been struggling because she saw me wearing pants. To keep the peace I’ve made the effort to wear skirts and dresses unless we are at home and I am working around the house. It’s been better for her but I too am struggling. If I could see it in the bible I would have no problem with it. I’ll definitely keep you in prayer. Just know you are not the only one out there.
May 13th, 2010 at 8:25 am
Wow! I came across this site doing some research on dress myself and boy oh boy are the posts interesting. I was raised in the UPC from the age of 11 and I have to say that just because I don a skirt to my ankles and a blouse to my wrists DOES not make me holy. The Lord has spoken much to me over the years and I stand on his WORD but godliness and holiness go hand in hand. God is a spirit and I know we all realize that. The Bible says we will know them by the Fruit they bare. What fruit is the Bible talking about? The fruit of the Spirit and God is that spirit. Galatians 5:2 tells us what the fruit of the Spirit is. When we are told to be ye separate and be not partakers of this world and to come out from among them, the Lord is showing us that the WORLD is everything that HE isn’t. The distinct difference here is to be different from the World in our conduct letting the fruit of the spirit rule our lives more and more. Unless we have all of the fruit of the Spirit flowing in our lives we are not HOLY. I personally know some ladies that wear skirts, and all but they have the meanest spirits, they gossip, back bite, are unthankful, etc., etc. and what does the word say about people that do these things, they are of the World. My convictions are not anothers convictions and it is no one’s place to condemn anyone to hell..Jesus will judge us and we will all answer to him. He will separate the goats from the sheep, so why do we try so hard to do that for him? Consider this; Mt 7:4&5… why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye but considerest not the beam in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. Jesus said for us to take the Gospel into ALL the world and to be fishers of men… He didn’t tell us to clean any of the fish. Prime example….A family(man and wiffe) prayed for the Lord to lead them into truth didn’t know anything about standards…They came to a local UP church and told the pastor that the Lord lead them to his church. They started attending both received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and then were baptized in Jesus name. After about 3 weeks of attending the pastor pulled them aside and told them we have a dress code here. Needless to say they never returned. I know this because the pastor is my uncle. Have we not become like the Pharisees and the Scribes by keeping people out of the temple just like these did in Jesus’ day. And here not long ago I was talking with a sister in the Lord who told me that someone at her church made the statement that they should keep skirts at the church to make women put them on when they come in to the church in pants. GOD HELP US ALL!!! The Gospel of Jesus is about the saving of souls and working in the kingdom not keeping people out of the kingdom because of a custom. The Lord is the same, yesterday, today and forever and he did not see Adam and Eve in their nakedness Eve brought that on them by believing the serpents lie of YE Shall not surely die. If we will walk totally in the Spirit we will also not see man’s outward appearance but will be see souls longing to be set free from the darkness they are in. We came into the World naked and we will leave the world naked. Our flesh is just an earthen vessel that will return to dust. Our soul is what will live on, so our soul is of utmost importance to the Lord. Jesus draw us closer to you, so we see man through your eyes which are the eyes of the spirit and not through the eyes of the flesh…
May 23rd, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I have left my oneness apostolic church for many reasons, yet I still adhere to the my latest preachers dress standards long sleeves past the elbows skirts past the knees, but I wear my skirts to the ankle because of my own personal preference. (Yes in the dead of summer I am sweating horribly and still dressed for winter not fun but I do it and so do my three children.) Yet I have this view if you shop in the women’s department you are wearing what pertained to a woman if you shop in the men’s department then you are wearing what pertained to a man. God doesn’t change with time, but what was available back 2000 years ago is not available today and vice versa that’s why God didn’t point blank say men wear pants and woman were dresses. Also if a woman can’t wear pant’s because they are immodest then why can men. I have heard plenty of women raving about a man’s backside. Until I can come to a biblical conclusion on wearing (females) pants I’ll keep wearing my skirts. But after this rant I feel I am super close to changing my views. Thanks for the chance to get that off my chest.
June 1st, 2010 at 4:53 pm
I have been very confused about this entire issue because I can see both sides. I took a poll on how many women we have had come into our church in the last 10 yrs, that were not raised in upc and I could only count 5 and 2 that were “worthy” enough to be on the platform or teach sunday school etc… the other women still struggled with hair or other standards so they are not able to participate on the platform or anything else. Im sorry but this number is disturbing to me! you mean to tell me we are reaching the lost this way? I am hungry for revival and to see my family saved but reality is they will not make those kind of drastic changes. My grandmother quit coming to church yrs ago because of her pants and many women wont convert because of the same issues. We have a world going to hell and Christ return is drawing near do we really have time to be divided over all of these issues that I really dont think matter to God. What God is concerned about is that we look and act like our gendor. If someone cant tell what gender you are than you have a problem and need to examine your attire but to say you cant wear pants, fingernail polish any jewelry is obsurd! We invite people to church but have to hide half of what we teach because we know they will be turned off immediatly. I have been upc for over 30 yrs and even tho as upc women we cant do so many things “we” girls and women over compensate with hair dos, clothes and shoes. The whole idea of the scripture was to not draw attention to ourselves with our apparel. Pentecostal girls and women draw attention! Go to conference and see the expensive clothing, expensive cars and extravagant hair dos, expensive suits for men and expensive watches and rings for women. Like I said “we are missing the point”! What happened to moderation as a lifestyle? We can wear watches that resemble a bracelet, a blouse that has sequences on it around the neck but dont dare wear a bracelet or necklace because thats rebellion! I appreciate and believe 100% in modestly and moderation but I’ve seen many skirts that are not modest and many lifestyles that have nothing to do with moderation. God help us that we can reach the lost for Him and stop this division.
June 1st, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Karly, I want to thank you for your excellent post. It sounds like you are going through a lot of the same thought processes that I went through. In particular, I also noticed how we eliminated jewelry (something that is not a commandment in the Bible) but we allowed fancy hair-dos and dresses! In our desire for holiness we ended up missing holiness. Holiness is a lifestyle, not a dress code.
Have you ever read the book “The Cost of Discipleship”? If not, a really encourage you to do so. It will work your world =)
God bless,
- Josh S.
June 1st, 2010 at 10:37 pm
thank you for reading my response. yes I am going through alot right now in my thought process. I will get the book and read it since i am looking and searching for answers.
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:37 am
We very recently left our church of 11 years. (holiness pentacostal) not oneness but outward standards essentially the same. Neither I nor my husband were raised in this way. We had been living a life of “hell on earth” before we started attending this church. My husband was addicted to drugs and our marriage was over. I had been attending the church I was raised in when I could and he had really never attended church anywhere. When everything in our marriage really blew up and it appeared all hope was gone for a reconciliation, the Lord in his mercy stepped in and worked a miracle in our home. My husband was wondrously saved and instantly delivered from years of drug addiction. I, too, was saved again. We got back together and the Lord changed both of sooooo much. We truly became “new creatures”! The change in my husband was absolutely incredible. We had 2 children at the time and since then have had 3 more. If u knew what we came from, you would understand that in the beginning we knew very little of God’s word and took our Pastor’s word 4 everything. In hindsight, this was our biggest mistake. We did not search the scriptures for ourselves. I want to say that I believe there are many wonderful saints of God in the holiness movement. I also have personally witnessed the judgemental holier than thou attitudes of many in the movement as well. Frankly, I am ashamed to admit it, but I myself have been guilty in the past of judging people based purely on external things. It is a learned behavior….
Anyway, after 11 years in this movement, we finally faced that all the questions and doubts were not of the devil, (as we were told) but actually discernment. We started searching the scriptures and seeking God’s will and finally came to the conclusion that much of what is preached is not Biblical. Modesty and moderation are biblical. Specific man made rules that forbid jewelry, make-up, pants,etc. are not… For years our children asked us questions about why we believed what we believed and we shamefully could not give them concrete reasons. Usually the best we could do was to say, “because it’s what the church teaches or to quote a scripture that it turns out was taken out of context. I can assure you that this has been one of the most difficult decisions my husband and I have ever had to make. Our oldest children were devastated when we told them we were leaving. This is all they have ever known….. And now we are faced with trying to find a good Bible believing church that appeals to our teenagers and our children. We are currently attending a wonderful small church… We still are not sure where God wants us. It’s only been a few weeks since we left our old church… My number one concern is my children. I want to make this transition without causing too much confusion. I’m not sure that is possible though. Even now, I find it difficult to differentiate between what is a personal conviction from God and what is just me still struggling with the way I was almost brainwashed it seems. God knows my heart. I have no intention of backsliding. I have nothing back there worth going back to. God has been sooo good to us. He has seen us through every storm and He will continue to be faithful. And by God’s grace and mercy, my family will come through this difficult time with a much greater understanding of God’s word and what true holiness really is. If only I had spent the last 11 years working on the fruits of the spirit instead of wasting sooo much time on this externalism. (I am not saying that modesty and moderation isn’t important in a Christian life) so please don’t jump to that conclusion. I am saying, however, that I believe I would be much further along in my walk with the Lord if I had not been sooo distracted by things that are of little significance to the Lord. How can we damn others to hell because of their pants, when our own spirits are sooo ugly? What is wrong with this picture?? We lived the “outward” for over 10 years, sang in the youth choir, taught Sunday school, etc. Now, we are trying to learn God’s word and be in his will. That is our priority. Josh, thank you for this site and for having the courage to stand up for what you believe. Please keep our family in your prayers as we go through this transition. God bless you!!
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:44 am
My pleasure, Karly!
“The Cost of Discipleship” is the book that I read in early 2006 that really changed the way that I started to think about true discipleship (which is what holiness actually is–separation to God). It was written by a German theologian, and it’s pretty deep reading.
If deep reading isn’t your thing then “Irresistible Revolution” is another good one. It is along the same vein as “The Cost of Discipleship,” and the author quotes it a lot. Unfortunately the author deals too much with politics for my comfort. I personally think politics should be left out of theology altogether. It is still an excellent book though, and it’s much easier reading.
Please feel free to email me any questions or prayer requests! I’ll do my best to answer, and even when I don’t have answers I am able to help you pray!
God bless,
- Josh S.
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:44 am
Crystal, I will definitely be praying for you and your family. I admire your courage. If I had a family then I do not know if I would have had the courage to leave what I knew and strike out for true discipleship. I trust that God will provide for your every need, and give you and your husband the wisdom that you need to lead your children through this transition.
In Christ,
- Josh S.
June 7th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
I am in a UPC church, and we dont wear pants in church. But when I was growing up I always wore pants in school and everywhere else!. But now that I am 20 years old, I feel pressured to give up pants. But you know what? I realised that it is indeed a question of MODESTY. period.
Even a blind person will know that as a woman, you are more likely to look immodest in pants, than in a skirt. especially if you are on the ‘heavy’ side!
So, every woman should know if she can wear pants and still look modest. At the end of the day, if people truly sought to please God, this whole pants thing wont even be an issue!
I wear pants sometimes, like if I am going jogging or going somewhere informal, as I can wear the baggy jumpsuits. but my common sense alone showed me that when I wear pants, by bottom and thighs are on display. considering men are stimulated with the eyes, I wouldn’t want to cause anyone to lust, or sin against God. If you love your fellow brothers, in Christ or in the world, you wouldn’t cause them to sin. So dont temp them for your own self/ego boost, ladies…
June 7th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
I am in a UPC church, and we dont wear pants in church. But when I was growing up I always wore pants in school and everywhere else!. But now that I am 20 years old, I feel pressured to give up pants. But you know what? I realised that it is indeed a question of MODESTY. period.
Even a blind person will know that as a woman, you are more likely to look immodest in pants, than in a skirt. especially if you are on the ‘heavy’ side!
So, every woman should know if she can wear pants and still look modest. At the end of the day, if people truly sought to please God, this whole pants thing wont even be an issue!
I wear pants sometimes, like if I am going jogging or going somewhere informal, as I can wear the baggy jumpsuits. but my common sense alone showed me that when I wear pants, by bottom and thighs are on display. Considering men are stimulated with the eyes, I wouldn’t want to cause anyone to lust, or sin against God. If you love your fellow brothers, in Christ or in the world, you wouldn’t cause them to sin. So dont tempt them for your own self/ego boost, ladies…
June 14th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Here’s my take on this. I grew up in a Baptist church. Where none of this was being teached. I have read the Bible myself. And, both of my parents were Christians. Same with my grandmother and my step-father, and step-brothers. All of this is law. If the law is all that matters. Why did Jesus Christ shed his blood for us upon that cross? I have never felt a conviction about wearing pants, or makeup, or having my hair cut in a bob, watching television or listening to rock music. My heart has never changed. I still believe that Jesus Christ is my lord and savior.
I have many friends who have turned against God because of churches like this. They have felt so convicted by Satan in their minds telling them that they are all worthless harlots and God hates them. God cannot hate people. He hates the sin. But, not the sinner. I myself have heard in my head before. Why bother when God hates you anyways? But, my heart always tells me that Jesus loves me even though I do fall short of the glory of God. But, that this subject is not a sin. Point is. God will always look at what is on the inside. Not the outside. So, quit trying to please God with your long hair and skirts. It’s not going to be what gets you to Heaven. And, in the long run it may just send someone else’s soul to Hell.
Also. To a girl named Jessica who posted up there somewhere. I prayed for you to realize that God’s going to love you for what’s in your heart. Not on your body. :) *hugs to you and your family*
June 19th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
I recently posted on here and wanted to update. Crystal Shifflett said in her post “I find it difficult to differentiate between what is a personal conviction from God and what is just me still struggling with the way I was almost brainwashed it seems.”And I feel this way too, but on every level. It makes me so angry that I did not catch the outright jugementalness of my Pastor and UPC members in general. The fact that they say facial hair is offensive Should have clued me in God used this change to Show a boy turning in to a man Gods wonderful plan and Pentecostal’s find this offensive. UGRR.
Also the comment that jeans are immodest and a blind person can tell is ludicrous. Do not these same Pentecostal preachers wear jeans? It’s all hog wash and I’m glad to be out!!
I am wearing Jeans, Jewelry, and Make-up guess what I’m not back sliding and I’m not going straight to Hell! Who are these people to cast GODS judgment on me it’s not their place.
Being Pentecostal has nearly ruined who I was for 7 years and now I am in repair. For the record I never wore Jewelry or make up much before I was Pentecostal.
But I can now say any one religion that says they have the truth I am running away like a crazy person. Funny cause I was looking for the truth to begin with and passed on Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, and Church of God (which was after Pentecostal and they pretty cult like too).
I know this is rambling and seems like I’m throwing a fit. I’m not I am just so relieved that I found that it was wrong and I finally made the decision to leave. I feel as if the weight has been lifted. Even though I still struggled with what is fact and what is Pentecostal junk I am very happy with my decision. I could take my time to truly put it all out her and continue to come back and comment but I am done worrying about it and to all that are struggling I feel your pain and confusion. Just remember Clothes do not cleanse your soul and make you holy.
June 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Thanks to josh
anyway i believe that every one here made a good comment on the issue.
but what we should be after is knowing what God want from us and keep to it b’cos he handles us individually and nobody will answer for u on the judgment day.we must give account of our life individually.
June 24th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
A long dress, hair cut, not wearing make-up don’t save you. What save you is faith in Jesus, obeying His Word and loving one another. The mind of Christ will dictate to you what is appropriate and what is not. Do people really have a understanding of the nature of the Kingdom of God.?
July 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 am
Several comments: I do wear pants to work, as I am a nurse. I am not about to wear a dress that flies over my head when I am working hard to save a life, ride a stretcher while working on someone. Further, with HIV, HEP, etc. I can’t work in a skirt that could brush in blood, etc. if I had to stoop down in a hurry. (A tight skirt would be hard to work in and would not be modest either). But if women needs to dress like in the Bible days, then men should do likewise. Men can certainly wear pants, but be sure that a tunic is worn over the pants so that you don’t see all their privates. All these dress pants and certainly jeans reveal more of a man than a woman. I KNOW God is not sending me to hell for all the naked bodies I have seen and cared for, and for wearing pants in order to be able to effeciently care for them. We have to use common sense. Men’s clothing has certainly changed as much as women’s clothing. And if we are going to stick absolutly to dressing in Biblical attire, then what about jewerly. We should not wear a single piece. You can own gold, just can’t wear it. This means wedding ring, watch etc. Can’t pick and choose.
I am not trying to upset anyone, just that we were given common sense and we need to apply it. Otherwise, my job would send me to hell of seeking naked people all the time. You must take responsibility for your own thoughts and lusts. Learn to look at the opposite sex without lust in your heart. Look at them with love and compassion, don’t blame someone else because you burn with lust. Pray that God puts that all in check for you. And guess what he will, then you don’t have to run around afraid to look at people. There will always be someone that you can lust after. Get out of that frame of mind and look upon others in a different way, not matter what they are wearing. Jesus did not look upon a harlot with lust, he looked upon her with love and concern for being lost.
July 11th, 2010 at 8:11 am
I think this is satans ultimate plan, to get people so wound up and debating issues like this that we lose sight of the ultimate plan of God….to win souls to the Lord.
July 11th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
J. Roper, I couldn’t agree with you more! If you read the “My Story” article then you’ll see that one of the main reasons I decided to leave the UPC was because I felt all of the extra rules created barriers between God and man. It’s also one of the reasons I do not debate with people on this Web site or allow people to debate each other in the comments. I speak my piece, I let other people speak their piece, and I think it should be left at that.
Thank you for bringing up such a great point. I think it’s good for everyone to remember. The only thing I would add to your point is this: I think winning souls should be a natural result of living the true Christian life. It should be the natural result of what happens when a person lives and acts like Christ intended us to live and act (cf. Mat. 5-7, Rom. 12:1-2, James, 1 John, Gal. 5:13:26, etc). I personally think that living a Christ-like life–a life of true discipleship–should be our primary goal, and then soul-winning will naturally flow out of that.
Of course I understand that many people will disagree. Western Christianity is infatuated with the idea of soul-winning. It’s become so bad that it becomes manipulative in many churches and mission groups. But I digress! The point is that Jesus just lived His life, and people naturally flocked to Him. He never had to manipulate or “try” to win souls. His life was so unique that people were drawn to Him. And I think that when we live the same kind of life people will be drawn to us–not because of who we are, but because of the One who lives in us!
In Christ,
- Josh S.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Interesting thread,……I have been in the UPC/Apostolic movement for 30 years, my grandchildren are at least 5th generation Pentecost. I just want you to know that I am well aware of these types of issues that are causing frustration and confusion. I have researched in-depth on the subject of “standards” for many years. I know Pentecost as well as anyone and you need to know each church is different and has it’s own line of standards. I will be brief and to the point,…..Women wearing pants-There is no scripture for or against, there is scripture for modesty. Pants can be more or less modest than a dress. We must be very careful about whan naming sin, if the bible does not say it we better leave it to ones own convictions or we will be in trouble with God!…… I am interested in telling people about the mercies of God and his saving power, not beating them down in the name of “religion”
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July 12th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
——– Edited by Site Admin ——–
Larry, thank you for commenting, but please remember that the comments area is not the place to post Bible studies. The special notes area of the comment box stresses that Bible studies cannot be posted. The reason is because I have no way of knowing what content is original and what is ripped from other sites, books, pamphlets, etc. (Yes, it has happened before!)
I have retained your original text and if you would like me to send it to you so that you can re-post it and then link to it then that will be fine.
Thanks for understanding!
God bless,
- Josh S.
July 12th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
LARRY..
Yeah you’ve been around I can see, I still hold positions of authority and will continue to until……..it’s the best place I can be to help confused and hurt saints. Many know and love my stand as somewhat of a rebel but many hate me. I will continue to tell it like the bible says. Saying facial hair is sin is almost like saying God didn’t know what he was doing when he made man, I will admit you can take it too far:)………I totally agree with acts 2:38, and can prove it frontwards and backwards. I have heard scripture taken out of context until I’m sick of it,….no rings, no makeup, no pants on women, women can’t trim hair, women have to wear panty hose, have to wear hair up or have to wear it down,…on and on and on and there is no scripture to back it up but rings were worn throughout the bible, women cut hair wore make up and by the way righteous women wore veils,….where are the veils today,…..my father in law is a pastor and preaches clean air is sin, well it’s about that bad. We left our church for about six weeks a couple years ago but so many told me they needed my support and understanding of the scriptures or they were just going to give up altogether, I had to go back and will continue to tell it like it is.
July 17th, 2010 at 8:55 am
I’m so sorry about the post. I did not read the rules and that’s my fault. Could you please remove what is left until I can repost. It doesn’t sound right without the rest of my comments that followed. Thank you so much.
July 17th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
No problem, Larry! I appreciate you understanding. Unfortunately some people think that I’m just out to moderate their views, but that’s not the case at all. I enjoyed reading what you wrote, and I’ll be happy to email you the original text if you need it. Just shoot me an email at jmspiers@gmail.com.
Thanks!
- Josh S.
July 19th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Just a few points then I will be on my way. First let me say that I am a member of the UPCI, hang me if you wish but it is only a fellowship of ministers. The UPCI manual is not going to be open at the White Throne Judgment. I do think they are good men and women, not perfect but only one man was perfect…and He died for us to be redeemed from sin. Just sayin…
Josh, I can respect your convictions and I think we agree on the fact that we will one day stand account for the life we led. I do have one point of clarification, the way I understood you was that culture dictates what is socially acceptable for men and women to wear. If that is indeed the case, how do we determine what is mans apparel in the ‘in between’ time. I agree with the shift in culture but we all know that it does not happen over night. Say it takes ten years for a skirt to be socially acceptable as mans apparel, at five years into the shift half of society says it’s ok and the other half says its not ok. Who is right in your eyes during the paradigm shift of socially acceptable?
The second point is with regards to the November 2009 post by sherri. This isn’t as detailed as her described garment but is similar. Here is the link:
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/Gird+up+the+Loins?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744%3Av0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Gird+up+the+Loins&sa=Search#906
Thanks for the opportunity to pick your brain! Look forward to your reply.
July 20th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Chris, I appreciate you commenting. I don’t think anyone here will hang you for being a member of the UPCI. I certainly won’t.
I agree that we will each have to give an account for ourselves to Christ. I was just discussing Romans 14 with a friend last night, and one of the Scriptures we were discussing was Roman 14:11-12 which says:
“It is written:
‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
I normally don’t respond to comments, but in this case I will because you asked me to. Please remember that I do not debate. But you asked a question so I will answer it to the best of my ability =)
There are a lot of things that could be said about the example that you chose. One thing that could be said is that men all over the world wear garments that hang from the waist and are not divided. These are, in effect, “dresses,” but we don’t consider them such because they have been in place for so long that they are already viewed as “men’s apparel.” For a perfect example just look at kilts.
But I understand the essence of your question so I’ll go ahead and answer it.
My answer is this: Why do we have to determine what is “man’s apparel”? Deuteronomy 22:5 does not apply to us today. It was part of the Mosaic Law that was fulfilled through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Deuteronomy 22:6-7 says that if I find a bird’s nest then I’m allowed to take the young birds but not the mother. Does that apply to me today?
Deuteronomy 22:8 says that if I build a house I have to make a parapet around the roof so that I will not be guilty of bloodshed if someone falls off of it. Does that apply to me today?
There are parts of the Mosaic Law that do apply to us today. Those parts are called the moral law. However, Deuteronomy 22:5 is not part of it.
So in answer to your question, if men in the U.S. start wearing dresses then I will find it kind of strange, but I will not find it sinful. The same answer could be said for any other garment.
Note 1: I do stand firmly against transvestism. I believe that is against the moral law. I do not believe Deu. 22:5 applies to us today, but that does NOT mean that I support the sin of transvestism. I do not support any sin!
Note 2: There are some who claim that Deu. 22:5 is part of the moral law. Those people say that it applies to us today. I do not agree, but to the people who feel that way I say: Let the Holy Spirit guide you in your clothing selections, and be very, very careful to not carry a double standard. Remember that if something is men’s apparel outside the home the it’s men’s apparel inside the home. Etc.
P.S. – Thank you for the link to the definition of girding up the loins, but in my response to Sherri I stressed that I was referring to the Wilderness era. She was basically correct in her description of how the Hebrews dressed in later eras, although I do take issue with some of the specifics she gave. Anyway, in the Wilderness era (when the Mosaic Law was written) their clothing was quite different. I actually wrote an article on it that you can find here: http://www.whyileft.org/ramblings/how-did-the-israelites-dress-in-the-wilderness-when-deuteronomy-225-was-written/
I hope that answered your question =)
In Christ,
- Josh S.
July 21st, 2010 at 12:23 am
I haven’t read through all of the posts on here but it seems like a lot of people think like I do. All of these rules are interfering with the true purpose of the Church. The pastor at the church my wife and I go to has recently been on a tirade the last 2-3 weeks about the subjects mentioned on this site. He’s especially been on my wife about the pants issue. As many have said, modesty should be modestly regardless of what you’re wearing. In fact, the other day our pastors wife was wearing a blouse that was practically up to her neck and down to her wrists BUT…the gap in between the buttons was somewhat large and you could see her bra underneath. I was not “turned on” in anyway but I still repented and mentioned it to my wife who then mentioned something to her.
God knows all of our hearts. If my wife were wearing her pants to draw attention to her figure, then we would call it a sin. She says she actually feels more immodest wearing a skirt/dress than pants!
We are getting really frustrated with the direction our pastor and pastors wife are taking. My wife and pastors wife went out for coffee the other day and the subject of being carnal came up. My newly grown full beard was mentioned in the same sentence as carnality.
We have made it known that by being personally attacked from the pulpit we are actually becoming more discouraged. Yet, they continue to do it. As a result we are going to be looking for a church where we can feel the presence of God without the fear of being persecuted by our fellow saints!
July 28th, 2010 at 8:37 am
To me wearing pants that outlines your curves brings on more attention! I am a small person who works out & takes care of my body. I would much rather put on a skirt on to NOT draw attention upon myself. When I used to wear pants I would have every guy looking at me….Guys have enough temptation to overcome – let alone me enticing them by a pair of jeans – showing my every curve. I feel modest when I wear a skirt – not pants. Years ago ALL women wore skirts! On the biblical viewpoint – I don’t understand how people can twist the word of God around, to justify their fleshly desires and do what they “FEEL” is OK. If you don’t believe the bible when it simply says women should NOT wear that which pertains to a man & to be modest, holy & acceptable unto the Lord, then just rip out those pages in the bible – if it doesn’t mean anything!!! Its amazing how people will find every twist & turn to NOT do what the BIBLE says to!!! Holiness begins inwardly & radiates outwardly, to become a complete Holy temple for GOD!!!!
Blessing to all, as we all have to die out to our flesh & do what the word tells us & not what we want!!! It’s a hard walk, but we need more of HIM & less of us!!! We are NOT our own – we are bought with a price!!!! Be not conformed to the world!!!