Comments on: What does the Bible say about women wearing pants?

By: A Humble Servant

A Humble Servant — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:37:00 +0000

To me wearing pants that outlines your curves brings on more attention! I am a small person who works out & takes care of my body. I would much rather put on a skirt on to NOT draw attention upon myself. When I used to wear pants I would have every guy looking at me….Guys have enough temptation to overcome – let alone me enticing them by a pair of jeans – showing my every curve. I feel modest when I wear a skirt – not pants. Years ago ALL women wore skirts! On the biblical viewpoint – I don’t understand how people can twist the word of God around, to justify their fleshly desires and do what they “FEEL” is OK. If you don’t believe the bible when it simply says women should NOT wear that which pertains to a man & to be modest, holy & acceptable unto the Lord, then just rip out those pages in the bible – if it doesn’t mean anything!!! Its amazing how people will find every twist & turn to NOT do what the BIBLE says to!!! Holiness begins inwardly & radiates outwardly, to become a complete Holy temple for GOD!!!!
Blessing to all, as we all have to die out to our flesh & do what the word tells us & not what we want!!! It’s a hard walk, but we need more of HIM & less of us!!! We are NOT our own – we are bought with a price!!!! Be not conformed to the world!!!

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:23:15 +0000

I haven’t read through all of the posts on here but it seems like a lot of people think like I do. All of these rules are interfering with the true purpose of the Church. The pastor at the church my wife and I go to has recently been on a tirade the last 2-3 weeks about the subjects mentioned on this site. He’s especially been on my wife about the pants issue. As many have said, modesty should be modestly regardless of what you’re wearing. In fact, the other day our pastors wife was wearing a blouse that was practically up to her neck and down to her wrists BUT…the gap in between the buttons was somewhat large and you could see her bra underneath. I was not “turned on” in anyway but I still repented and mentioned it to my wife who then mentioned something to her.

God knows all of our hearts. If my wife were wearing her pants to draw attention to her figure, then we would call it a sin. She says she actually feels more immodest wearing a skirt/dress than pants!

We are getting really frustrated with the direction our pastor and pastors wife are taking. My wife and pastors wife went out for coffee the other day and the subject of being carnal came up. My newly grown full beard was mentioned in the same sentence as carnality.

We have made it known that by being personally attacked from the pulpit we are actually becoming more discouraged. Yet, they continue to do it. As a result we are going to be looking for a church where we can feel the presence of God without the fear of being persecuted by our fellow saints!

By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:37:26 +0000

Chris, I appreciate you commenting. I don’t think anyone here will hang you for being a member of the UPCI. I certainly won’t.

I agree that we will each have to give an account for ourselves to Christ. I was just discussing Romans 14 with a friend last night, and one of the Scriptures we were discussing was Roman 14:11-12 which says:

“It is written:

‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’

So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

I normally don’t respond to comments, but in this case I will because you asked me to. Please remember that I do not debate. But you asked a question so I will answer it to the best of my ability =)

There are a lot of things that could be said about the example that you chose. One thing that could be said is that men all over the world wear garments that hang from the waist and are not divided. These are, in effect, “dresses,” but we don’t consider them such because they have been in place for so long that they are already viewed as “men’s apparel.” For a perfect example just look at kilts.

But I understand the essence of your question so I’ll go ahead and answer it.

My answer is this: Why do we have to determine what is “man’s apparel”? Deuteronomy 22:5 does not apply to us today. It was part of the Mosaic Law that was fulfilled through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Deuteronomy 22:6-7 says that if I find a bird’s nest then I’m allowed to take the young birds but not the mother. Does that apply to me today?

Deuteronomy 22:8 says that if I build a house I have to make a parapet around the roof so that I will not be guilty of bloodshed if someone falls off of it. Does that apply to me today?

There are parts of the Mosaic Law that do apply to us today. Those parts are called the moral law. However, Deuteronomy 22:5 is not part of it.

So in answer to your question, if men in the U.S. start wearing dresses then I will find it kind of strange, but I will not find it sinful. The same answer could be said for any other garment.

Note 1: I do stand firmly against transvestism. I believe that is against the moral law. I do not believe Deu. 22:5 applies to us today, but that does NOT mean that I support the sin of transvestism. I do not support any sin!

Note 2: There are some who claim that Deu. 22:5 is part of the moral law. Those people say that it applies to us today. I do not agree, but to the people who feel that way I say: Let the Holy Spirit guide you in your clothing selections, and be very, very careful to not carry a double standard. Remember that if something is men’s apparel outside the home the it’s men’s apparel inside the home. Etc.

P.S. – Thank you for the link to the definition of girding up the loins, but in my response to Sherri I stressed that I was referring to the Wilderness era. She was basically correct in her description of how the Hebrews dressed in later eras, although I do take issue with some of the specifics she gave. Anyway, in the Wilderness era (when the Mosaic Law was written) their clothing was quite different. I actually wrote an article on it that you can find here: http://www.whyileft.org/ramblings/how-did-the-israelites-dress-in-the-wilderness-when-deuteronomy-225-was-written/

I hope that answered your question =)

In Christ,
- Josh S.

By: Chris

Chris — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 04:24:34 +0000

Just a few points then I will be on my way. First let me say that I am a member of the UPCI, hang me if you wish but it is only a fellowship of ministers. The UPCI manual is not going to be open at the White Throne Judgment. I do think they are good men and women, not perfect but only one man was perfect…and He died for us to be redeemed from sin. Just sayin…

Josh, I can respect your convictions and I think we agree on the fact that we will one day stand account for the life we led. I do have one point of clarification, the way I understood you was that culture dictates what is socially acceptable for men and women to wear. If that is indeed the case, how do we determine what is mans apparel in the ‘in between’ time. I agree with the shift in culture but we all know that it does not happen over night. Say it takes ten years for a skirt to be socially acceptable as mans apparel, at five years into the shift half of society says it’s ok and the other half says its not ok. Who is right in your eyes during the paradigm shift of socially acceptable?

The second point is with regards to the November 2009 post by sherri. This isn’t as detailed as her described garment but is similar. Here is the link:
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/Gird+up+the+Loins?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744%3Av0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Gird+up+the+Loins&sa=Search#906

Thanks for the opportunity to pick your brain! Look forward to your reply.

By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 17:09:32 +0000

No problem, Larry! I appreciate you understanding. Unfortunately some people think that I’m just out to moderate their views, but that’s not the case at all. I enjoyed reading what you wrote, and I’ll be happy to email you the original text if you need it. Just shoot me an email at jmspiers@gmail.com.

Thanks!
- Josh S.

By: Larry Farris Jr

Larry Farris Jr — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:55:21 +0000

I’m so sorry about the post. I did not read the rules and that’s my fault. Could you please remove what is left until I can repost. It doesn’t sound right without the rest of my comments that followed. Thank you so much.

By: E. Norman

E. Norman — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:33:22 +0000

LARRY..
Yeah you’ve been around I can see, I still hold positions of authority and will continue to until……..it’s the best place I can be to help confused and hurt saints. Many know and love my stand as somewhat of a rebel but many hate me. I will continue to tell it like the bible says. Saying facial hair is sin is almost like saying God didn’t know what he was doing when he made man, I will admit you can take it too far:)………I totally agree with acts 2:38, and can prove it frontwards and backwards. I have heard scripture taken out of context until I’m sick of it,….no rings, no makeup, no pants on women, women can’t trim hair, women have to wear panty hose, have to wear hair up or have to wear it down,…on and on and on and there is no scripture to back it up but rings were worn throughout the bible, women cut hair wore make up and by the way righteous women wore veils,….where are the veils today,…..my father in law is a pastor and preaches clean air is sin, well it’s about that bad. We left our church for about six weeks a couple years ago but so many told me they needed my support and understanding of the scriptures or they were just going to give up altogether, I had to go back and will continue to tell it like it is.

By: Larry Farris Jr

Larry Farris Jr — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:01:55 +0000

——– Edited by Site Admin ——–

Larry, thank you for commenting, but please remember that the comments area is not the place to post Bible studies. The special notes area of the comment box stresses that Bible studies cannot be posted. The reason is because I have no way of knowing what content is original and what is ripped from other sites, books, pamphlets, etc. (Yes, it has happened before!)

I have retained your original text and if you would like me to send it to you so that you can re-post it and then link to it then that will be fine.

Thanks for understanding!

God bless,
- Josh S.

By: E. Norman

E. Norman — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:32:20 +0000

Interesting thread,……I have been in the UPC/Apostolic movement for 30 years, my grandchildren are at least 5th generation Pentecost. I just want you to know that I am well aware of these types of issues that are causing frustration and confusion. I have researched in-depth on the subject of “standards” for many years. I know Pentecost as well as anyone and you need to know each church is different and has it’s own line of standards. I will be brief and to the point,…..Women wearing pants-There is no scripture for or against, there is scripture for modesty. Pants can be more or less modest than a dress. We must be very careful about whan naming sin, if the bible does not say it we better leave it to ones own convictions or we will be in trouble with God!…… I am interested in telling people about the mercies of God and his saving power, not beating them down in the name of “religion”
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By: Josh (Site Admin)

Josh (Site Admin) — Sun, 11 Jul 2010 17:53:25 +0000

J. Roper, I couldn’t agree with you more! If you read the “My Story” article then you’ll see that one of the main reasons I decided to leave the UPC was because I felt all of the extra rules created barriers between God and man. It’s also one of the reasons I do not debate with people on this Web site or allow people to debate each other in the comments. I speak my piece, I let other people speak their piece, and I think it should be left at that.

Thank you for bringing up such a great point. I think it’s good for everyone to remember. The only thing I would add to your point is this: I think winning souls should be a natural result of living the true Christian life. It should be the natural result of what happens when a person lives and acts like Christ intended us to live and act (cf. Mat. 5-7, Rom. 12:1-2, James, 1 John, Gal. 5:13:26, etc). I personally think that living a Christ-like life–a life of true discipleship–should be our primary goal, and then soul-winning will naturally flow out of that.

Of course I understand that many people will disagree. Western Christianity is infatuated with the idea of soul-winning. It’s become so bad that it becomes manipulative in many churches and mission groups. But I digress! The point is that Jesus just lived His life, and people naturally flocked to Him. He never had to manipulate or “try” to win souls. His life was so unique that people were drawn to Him. And I think that when we live the same kind of life people will be drawn to us–not because of who we are, but because of the One who lives in us!

In Christ,
- Josh S.